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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7924176" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>First off, thank you for your well-reasoned reply.</p><p></p><p>I might come off strong, but that's because I care.</p><p></p><p>For instance, my immediate impulse to reading this would be "this sounds like someone just reading the PHB, not playing the game". But I won't write that. Instead I will explain that every practical consideration of alignment that is anathema to good S&S:y gaming has been removed.</p><p></p><p>It was there in 3E. It no longer is there in 5E. You can't cast Detect Evil in order to just kill the evulz. Only outsiders (demons etc) register on detect spells, and just maybe high-level clerics if your GM wants to*. Problematic spells are generally gone, or much higher level. Especially spells that are problematic from a S&S POV. (And no, for this purpose I'm not including area damage spells <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> )</p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">*) At extreme levels of corruption and decadence, you could do worse than changing the (N)PC's type to outsider, just to emphasize how far removed from humanity the character has strayed...</span></p><p></p><p>So while yes the introduction of the PHB still discusses alignment, there's a world of difference as to what it means in actual play.</p><p></p><p>What it means in actual play <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> is that every reservation you rightfully had in this section of your book is gone, taken care of, no longer a problem. <em>5th Edition already plays like a S&S:er wants alignment to play.</em></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, a much more 5E:y approach would be to say nothing, and to feature alignment on monsters normally.</p><p></p><p>Why? Because we're trying to tell you <strong>5E alignment doesn't mean what you think it means</strong>. There's no need to explain why NPCs don't have alignment listed, because it's okay to give them an alignment. All the bad (non-trope:y) things you're associating with alignment are things you no longer can pull off.</p><p></p><p>A demon can be detected by divination magic, but not because it's evil, but because it's an outsider. There's no spell that protect against alignment. No, really - go check out Protection from Good and Evil and really read up what the spell does. There's no "good damage" like in Pathfinder that deals extra damage to Evil creatures.</p><p></p><p>I understand perfectly where you're coming from Xoth. From an AD&D or d20 perspective, your reservations are fully and completely justifiable. But 5E is a different game, trust me.</p><p></p><p>It's time to fully immerse your document with 5E sensibilities, Xoth. In other words, it's time to lay down your reservations against alignment, since they come off as quaint as best to a 5E gamer.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The core rules variant of Instant Death has some impact at low level. A little, not much. At higher levels, it has absolutely zero impact. Trust me, things do not become slightly more deadly for higher-level characters, because higher-level characters <strong>never</strong> interact with Instant Death.</p><p></p><p>But more importantly, it makes heroes vulnerable for the wrong reasons. It means (at least at low level) that some random roll could kill you. It means your last hit points are worth less than your first hit points. (Being at only 9 hp is always worse than being at 29 hp obviously; but with Instant Death there's an <em>extra</em> reason to not heroically press on when you're low on hp). The only effect this has is making heroes cautious and trepidatious. Exactly what you <strong>don't</strong> want S&S heroes to be!</p><p></p><p></p><p>The reason I'm getting "worked up" is because...:</p><p></p><p>- "You should probably delete the section on Instant Death, it doesn't work toward S&S tropes. Having it means an implicit recommendation."</p><p>Xoth: - "Okay, I'll make it optional".</p><p>- "But having it at all means you implicitly recommend Instant Death, when you should do the opposite. If anything you should recommend against Instant Death. But probably just easier to drop it altogether".</p><p>Xoth: - "I did made it optional."</p><p>- "You're not getting the point. The feedback is don't have it at all, since even an optional variant means making an implicit recommendation, and no version of Instant Death feels S&S:y"</p><p>Xoth: - "Why are you getting worked up?"</p><p></p><p><em>Because at no point during this comical double monologue do I get the feeling you have received and parsed our message! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></em></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's fine.</p><p></p><p>I would still replace</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">"To make up for the scarcity of healing spells and restorative magic, the natural healing rate should be accelerated in a sword and sorcery setting.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Since the fifth edition standard rules already include the concept of short rests, which allow all characters to heal quickly by the use of hit dice, and long rests which restore all hit points, there is no need for any special rules for healing in the World of Xoth."</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p>with simply</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">"The default rules of 5th Edition work perfectly for the World of Xoth."</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p></p><p></p><p>No need to get passive-agressive. You're a ttrpg publisher, I'm sure you have thick skin.</p><p></p><p>I honestly don't see why you would add rules bloat just to justify a section. So why not simply recognize this "Wounds Heal Quickly" is a darling that could be killed, and move the nice quote elsewhere <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Never said that. I specifically meant what is quoted above.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay Point made.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Now there's an argument I buy completely!</p><p></p><p>Since I cannot ask for more than "I haven't ruled it out", that's the end of me badgering you about Culture! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool :cool:" data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>I just might. Busy with PF2 at the mo', though.</p><p></p><p>Regards</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7924176, member: 12731"] First off, thank you for your well-reasoned reply. I might come off strong, but that's because I care. For instance, my immediate impulse to reading this would be "this sounds like someone just reading the PHB, not playing the game". But I won't write that. Instead I will explain that every practical consideration of alignment that is anathema to good S&S:y gaming has been removed. It was there in 3E. It no longer is there in 5E. You can't cast Detect Evil in order to just kill the evulz. Only outsiders (demons etc) register on detect spells, and just maybe high-level clerics if your GM wants to*. Problematic spells are generally gone, or much higher level. Especially spells that are problematic from a S&S POV. (And no, for this purpose I'm not including area damage spells ;) ) [SIZE=3]*) At extreme levels of corruption and decadence, you could do worse than changing the (N)PC's type to outsider, just to emphasize how far removed from humanity the character has strayed...[/SIZE] So while yes the introduction of the PHB still discusses alignment, there's a world of difference as to what it means in actual play. What it means in actual play :) is that every reservation you rightfully had in this section of your book is gone, taken care of, no longer a problem. [I]5th Edition already plays like a S&S:er wants alignment to play.[/I] Well, a much more 5E:y approach would be to say nothing, and to feature alignment on monsters normally. Why? Because we're trying to tell you [B]5E alignment doesn't mean what you think it means[/B]. There's no need to explain why NPCs don't have alignment listed, because it's okay to give them an alignment. All the bad (non-trope:y) things you're associating with alignment are things you no longer can pull off. A demon can be detected by divination magic, but not because it's evil, but because it's an outsider. There's no spell that protect against alignment. No, really - go check out Protection from Good and Evil and really read up what the spell does. There's no "good damage" like in Pathfinder that deals extra damage to Evil creatures. I understand perfectly where you're coming from Xoth. From an AD&D or d20 perspective, your reservations are fully and completely justifiable. But 5E is a different game, trust me. It's time to fully immerse your document with 5E sensibilities, Xoth. In other words, it's time to lay down your reservations against alignment, since they come off as quaint as best to a 5E gamer. The core rules variant of Instant Death has some impact at low level. A little, not much. At higher levels, it has absolutely zero impact. Trust me, things do not become slightly more deadly for higher-level characters, because higher-level characters [B]never[/B] interact with Instant Death. But more importantly, it makes heroes vulnerable for the wrong reasons. It means (at least at low level) that some random roll could kill you. It means your last hit points are worth less than your first hit points. (Being at only 9 hp is always worse than being at 29 hp obviously; but with Instant Death there's an [I]extra[/I] reason to not heroically press on when you're low on hp). The only effect this has is making heroes cautious and trepidatious. Exactly what you [B]don't[/B] want S&S heroes to be! The reason I'm getting "worked up" is because...: - "You should probably delete the section on Instant Death, it doesn't work toward S&S tropes. Having it means an implicit recommendation." Xoth: - "Okay, I'll make it optional". - "But having it at all means you implicitly recommend Instant Death, when you should do the opposite. If anything you should recommend against Instant Death. But probably just easier to drop it altogether". Xoth: - "I did made it optional." - "You're not getting the point. The feedback is don't have it at all, since even an optional variant means making an implicit recommendation, and no version of Instant Death feels S&S:y" Xoth: - "Why are you getting worked up?" [I]Because at no point during this comical double monologue do I get the feeling you have received and parsed our message! :)[/I] That's fine. I would still replace [INDENT][/INDENT] [INDENT]"To make up for the scarcity of healing spells and restorative magic, the natural healing rate should be accelerated in a sword and sorcery setting.[/INDENT] [INDENT]Since the fifth edition standard rules already include the concept of short rests, which allow all characters to heal quickly by the use of hit dice, and long rests which restore all hit points, there is no need for any special rules for healing in the World of Xoth."[/INDENT] [INDENT][/INDENT] with simply [INDENT][/INDENT] [INDENT]"The default rules of 5th Edition work perfectly for the World of Xoth."[/INDENT] [INDENT][/INDENT] No need to get passive-agressive. You're a ttrpg publisher, I'm sure you have thick skin. I honestly don't see why you would add rules bloat just to justify a section. So why not simply recognize this "Wounds Heal Quickly" is a darling that could be killed, and move the nice quote elsewhere :) Never said that. I specifically meant what is quoted above. Okay Point made. Now there's an argument I buy completely! Since I cannot ask for more than "I haven't ruled it out", that's the end of me badgering you about Culture! :cool: I just might. Busy with PF2 at the mo', though. Regards [/QUOTE]
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