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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Melkor" data-source="post: 6648137" data-attributes="member: 10786">No worries Steve. Since the original C&C playtests - when (and when NOT) to add level to checks has been a constant discussion in my gaming group, and also on various forums - So it is one thing I am always specifically looking for in published material.P. 16 of the 6th Printing PHB actually states: "Every check has an associated attribute. Whenever one of these checks is made a d20 is rolled by the player. Attribute and level modifiers, for class abilities only, are added to this roll, if applicable. If the result is equal to or greater than a number generated by the Castle Keeper, called the challenge class, then the attribute check is successful."This seems to mesh well with things like Secondary Skills in the Castle Keepers Guide (P.321) which note: "A secondary skill provides a character basic knowledge in that area. To this end they gain a +1 on any attribute check associated with the skill. They do not add in their level bonus."But this is contradicted in other places in the rules where it mentions that level is always added to a  Attribute Check by default unless the attribute check falls into a class skill that is the purview of some other class - and then, level isn't added if the Castle Keeper even allows you to attempt a check.So, as I have come to understand it (and maybe you would be willing to weigh in here on the topic to help put my mind at ease after years of playing C&C):• Level is added to any check you have a class ability for. • Level is added to saving throws. • Level might be added (at the Castle Keeper's discretion to anything that might reasonably fall under an action that the character might have had some training in based on his background, class, or race.*• Level is never added to an attribute check that falls under the purview of another class (A fighter trying to move silently, a mage trying to pick a pocket) if the Castle Keeper even allows a check for such things.• Level is not added to an attribute check that the Castle Keeper deems is outside the realm of training that the character might reasonably have based on his class, race, or background. This in not specifically called out in the rules, but (in my opinion) probably should be - as it is the only way a lot of things (like Secondary Skills - see below) make sense.*This seems to be the only way that the Secondary Skill rules as presented in the CKG (and not adding level) make sense. It's a 'little bit' of training in something, enough for a +1 to an attribute check, but not enough to add your level to the check...Otherwise, if you add your level to every check (except in the specific case where your character is attempting a roll that falls under the purview of another class), why the heck wouldn't you add it to a Secondary Skill you possess?Appreciate any response Steve - would really like to hear your thoughts on the above as I think that C&C is the bees knees. Really, probably the best and most modern way to capture the feel of AD&D OSR style (AD&D with modern mechanics if you will) - But the ONLY issue I have had with it (and which has lead to numerous unpleasant arguments at out game table) is based on when and when not to add level to checks - and that is further confused by different statements in different areas of the rules (and the example I pointed out in the Free RPG day module).Thanks!</blockquote>

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