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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Troll Lord" data-source="post: 6649302" data-attributes="member: 1163">Melkor,First, thanks for the kind words! Its very much appreciated.As to your assessment, is pretty spot on. That first mention on page 16 needs to have that phrase "for class abilities only" removed. Its actually wrong in spirit and technically. I'll make sure that gets fixed for 7th printing.Your First Point, class abilities: You certainly add levels to each class ability check, but you add levels to almost all the checks you make normally as well. Your Second Point, saving throws: You always add to saving throws as the character's actual experience plays into his abilities to resist or react to situations. Your Third Point, Day to Day Actions: You state this well. Its up to the discretion of the CK, and this plays into character backgrounds, etc. However, it is rare, very rare, that I don't allow levels added to almost any check. A fist level ranger that swims a river gets a +1, when he's 4th level he gets a +4. This represents his experience, and growth as a character. Where it gets a little tricky...and this is why we try to not hammer the rules down to tightly, but leave them a little fluid...is in character background. If that ranger grew up in the city and had never been able to swim, and has no knowledge of water, then I probably wouldn't allow him the level bonus. But even if he had a modicum of skill in swimming...kind of the unstated skill that we all have, then he would get the level bonus. It being representative of character growth, however you want to qualify it, whether in confidence, actual practice, intuition, etc. But this is a gray area and can cause some confusion. In general almost all checks allow the level added.Your Fourth Point Other Class Skills: Yes, the level is never added. If a fighter tries to hid from someone he doesn't get to add his level because this is a skill a rogue or elf possesses. Now if the monster is making the check, to see if he SEES the fighter, I would probably allow the level added for the fighter, but really monsters aren't supposed to be making checks, this is a character driven game.Your Fifth Point, Day to Day Actions Part 2: This is the gray area and really depends on the CK and their style of game...as you noted. In general any check made is allowed the level bonus. We do this to allow characters to become better in the mundane actions of life. When I was 18 I didn't have nearly the confidence to tackle day to day problems that I do now, even though I have no skill and or experience in certain areas. That's kind of the concept. The character has grown and this plays into the actual check. The problem with denying the attribute check is that it complicates game play. It all stands to reason to deny them the level, but now you have to keep track of all kinds of things. If the ranger noted above has no experience in swimming, but moves to a river, gains 4 levels, does he get the bonus for swimming or half of it or what have you. For simplicity sake I tend to allow the check unless it seems really egregious...."I want to try and understand what the orc's facial expression means." Yeah, he gets no level bonus. If its a dwarf. He gets the level bonus. I sense this last part is where you've run into trouble at the table and it tangles with the secondary skills from the CKG. Because if a fighter who is fourth level, but has never gambled, gets to add his 4 levels, but a rogue who has the gambling skill does not, then its pointless to ever take a skill. But the real solution is that the sentence "They do not add in their level bonus" needs removed. Why? Because it ties the CKs hands to one particular. Plus it goes against the spirit of the "level equals character growth." It should read "They generally add in their level bonus plus 1, however this is up to the CK's discretion."Though I may seem to be prevaricating on this gray area. I'm not. The game is really designed to play to the style of gamer you are and nailing down the rules, nails down the CK, which is the last thing we want to do.Look forward to your response.Steve</blockquote>

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