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<blockquote data-quote="Shadowdweller" data-source="post: 2362716" data-attributes="member: 14563">Ok then.&nbsp; Take two.&nbsp; That is most definitely not what I said.&nbsp; However, some creatures obviously CAN move through solid rock: Xorns, Incorporeal creatures, generic Earth Elementals.&nbsp; Of these who can move through solid rock those creatures who can fly by whatever means...note the shadow example I gave earlier...can FLY through solid rock.&nbsp; Allow me to juxtapose this with some of your own statements:You've somehow latched on to the notion that one cannot use fly speeds through anything except air.&nbsp; What do the rules say about fly speeds?&nbsp; That the creature can use it in air.&nbsp; This is not the same thing as saying &quot;All creatures with fly speeds CANNOT use them in not-air&quot;.&nbsp; But even if there are cases where creatures with fly speeds can use them in &quot;not-air,&quot; it doesn't necessarily follow that ALL creatures with fly-speeds can use said fly-speeds in ALL cases of &quot;not-air&quot;.&nbsp; IOW, it's not specified whether a given creature can &quot;fly&quot; or not in the water, nor under what circumstances it might or might not do so.&nbsp; It's purely a matter of DM discretion.(FWIW though, aside from the movement-mode issue, I mostly agree with your other statements.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Shadowdweller, post: 2362716, member: 14563"] Ok then. Take two. That is most definitely not what I said. However, some creatures obviously CAN move through solid rock: Xorns, Incorporeal creatures, generic Earth Elementals. Of these who can move through solid rock those creatures who can fly by whatever means...note the shadow example I gave earlier...can FLY through solid rock. Allow me to juxtapose this with some of your own statements: You've somehow latched on to the notion that one cannot use fly speeds through anything except air. What do the rules say about fly speeds? That the creature can use it in air. This is not the same thing as saying "All creatures with fly speeds CANNOT use them in not-air". But even if there are cases where creatures with fly speeds can use them in "not-air," it doesn't necessarily follow that ALL creatures with fly-speeds can use said fly-speeds in ALL cases of "not-air". IOW, it's not specified whether a given creature can "fly" or not in the water, nor under what circumstances it might or might not do so. It's purely a matter of DM discretion. (FWIW though, aside from the movement-mode issue, I mostly agree with your other statements.) [/QUOTE]

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