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Friday Musing: What If It Wasn't War Games
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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 8674581" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>You appear to be the one reversing the causality.</p><p></p><p>RPGs in the early days were notable for</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">campaign play</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">character scale</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">magic or supertech</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">use of dice</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">use of a GM as arbiter of rules</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">use of a GM as source for resolution of "not covered" actions.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">advancement of character capabilities</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">damage cumulation</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">vocal mode play</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">numerical ratings</li> </ol><p>Pre 1974 wargaming had...</p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">campaign play (not common, but existed)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">character scale (mostly in minis wargaming at the time; scales dropping from 1 figure=10 to 100 men to the RPG scale of 1:1)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">magic or supertech (rising along with the popularity of Tolkien)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">use of dice for odds effect simulation (1950's with Tactics)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">use of a GM as arbiter of rules (Kriegspiel 1880's)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">use of a GM as source for resolution of "not covered" actions. (Frei Kriegspiel, 1890's)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">advancement of ship crew quality (several naval games)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">hull points (several naval games)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">vocal mode play (Model UN, Braunstein)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Other damage systems<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">a few games with up/down/off damage steps</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">a few with penalty markers and on/off map.</li> </ol></li> </ol><p>all the elements are there... it's just that Weseley and Arneson hit #9 with #2, #4-6, in 1968, and Gygax had #1, #2-4, #7-8 in his wargames rules circa 1969... When you get both Arneson and Gygax? BAM! </p><p></p><p>RPGs simply were bringing together elements that <u>already existed</u> in wargaming. Which is why the magic sauce spread like wildfire.</p><p></p><p>What might have differed? </p><ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">the literary inspirations. <ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Ollie Legrand shows us what a Greco-fantasy might have looked like, with his <em><u>Mazes and Minotaurs</u></em>.</li> </ol></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">But we might also have seen "Up, Down, or off the table" in that early era, not just waiting to be reintroduced in Savage Worlds. It is equally as viable for RPGing, as shown by Savage Worlds.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Deterministic damage... on a hit, do X damage... Dragon Warriors used that</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Methods of advancement</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">default sizes</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">attribute scaling...</li> </ol><p>It might have been the same year, it might have taken 20 more, but it's unlikely that wargaming wouldn't lead to something with the key features of early D&D.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 8674581, member: 6779310"] You appear to be the one reversing the causality. RPGs in the early days were notable for [LIST=1] [*]campaign play [*]character scale [*]magic or supertech [*]use of dice [*]use of a GM as arbiter of rules [*]use of a GM as source for resolution of "not covered" actions. [*]advancement of character capabilities [*]damage cumulation [*]vocal mode play [*]numerical ratings [/LIST] Pre 1974 wargaming had... [LIST=1] [*]campaign play (not common, but existed) [*]character scale (mostly in minis wargaming at the time; scales dropping from 1 figure=10 to 100 men to the RPG scale of 1:1) [*]magic or supertech (rising along with the popularity of Tolkien) [*]use of dice for odds effect simulation (1950's with Tactics) [*]use of a GM as arbiter of rules (Kriegspiel 1880's) [*]use of a GM as source for resolution of "not covered" actions. (Frei Kriegspiel, 1890's) [*]advancement of ship crew quality (several naval games) [*]hull points (several naval games) [*]vocal mode play (Model UN, Braunstein) [*]Other damage systems [LIST=1] [*]a few games with up/down/off damage steps [*]a few with penalty markers and on/off map. [/LIST] [/LIST] all the elements are there... it's just that Weseley and Arneson hit #9 with #2, #4-6, in 1968, and Gygax had #1, #2-4, #7-8 in his wargames rules circa 1969... When you get both Arneson and Gygax? BAM! RPGs simply were bringing together elements that [U]already existed[/U] in wargaming. Which is why the magic sauce spread like wildfire. What might have differed? [LIST=1] [*]the literary inspirations. [LIST=1] [*]Ollie Legrand shows us what a Greco-fantasy might have looked like, with his [I][U]Mazes and Minotaurs[/U][/I]. [/LIST] [*]But we might also have seen "Up, Down, or off the table" in that early era, not just waiting to be reintroduced in Savage Worlds. It is equally as viable for RPGing, as shown by Savage Worlds. [*]Deterministic damage... on a hit, do X damage... Dragon Warriors used that [*]Methods of advancement [*]default sizes [*]attribute scaling... [/LIST] It might have been the same year, it might have taken 20 more, but it's unlikely that wargaming wouldn't lead to something with the key features of early D&D. [/QUOTE]
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