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From Adventure Game to Story Game?
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<blockquote data-quote="Yaguara" data-source="post: 6061560" data-attributes="member: 6703721"><p>Hussar, you missed my point. Daztur stated that trying to run a story driven adventure game puts more "big gobs of power" in the hands of the DM than normally exists. My point is that this simply isn't true. The DM has always had that narrative power and a good DM makes liberal use of that power. I am well aware that "Story" games have rules that share this power with the rest of the players but the OP's question isn't about those games - it is about how to bring the best parts of those games into a more traditional adventure game like D&D. I understand that many people seek some sort of framework and structure to help create the game/story they want to see. That is what the poster is looking for - a way to help guarantee the kind of game they want to see for themselves and the other players - that is really what these "Story" rules are all about.</p><p></p><p>Daztur: I understand your position - there are few things worse than railroading players to follow a pre-set plot. I suspect you are talking about a game where the player's actions make no difference to the overall game. That is not what I am describing. A good DM doesn't have to do that and a good plot doesn't need to either. A good plot is one the players will seek out and drive forward all on their own. How do you know a good plot from a bad one? Simple - a good plot is dictated by the player's desires not the DM's. You talk about a DM that has no particular plot in mind. To my way of thinking that is not a good DM. You talk about a DM that has to nudge the players off of the "wrong" plot. To my way of thinking if the DM has to nudge the players onto the plot then that IS the wrong plot and the one the players are pursuing is the right one. The DM needs to know what the plot is to guide the narrative but it is the players who decide what the plot is. Notice I said "guide the narrative" not "dictate the narrative." The DM has to be able to create the encounters that allow the players to move the plot forward. The DM also has to be able to organize the plot so that players with divergent goals are not going in different directions all at once. The DM doesn't decide what the goals are - the DM decides when and in what order they are achieved.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yaguara, post: 6061560, member: 6703721"] Hussar, you missed my point. Daztur stated that trying to run a story driven adventure game puts more "big gobs of power" in the hands of the DM than normally exists. My point is that this simply isn't true. The DM has always had that narrative power and a good DM makes liberal use of that power. I am well aware that "Story" games have rules that share this power with the rest of the players but the OP's question isn't about those games - it is about how to bring the best parts of those games into a more traditional adventure game like D&D. I understand that many people seek some sort of framework and structure to help create the game/story they want to see. That is what the poster is looking for - a way to help guarantee the kind of game they want to see for themselves and the other players - that is really what these "Story" rules are all about. Daztur: I understand your position - there are few things worse than railroading players to follow a pre-set plot. I suspect you are talking about a game where the player's actions make no difference to the overall game. That is not what I am describing. A good DM doesn't have to do that and a good plot doesn't need to either. A good plot is one the players will seek out and drive forward all on their own. How do you know a good plot from a bad one? Simple - a good plot is dictated by the player's desires not the DM's. You talk about a DM that has no particular plot in mind. To my way of thinking that is not a good DM. You talk about a DM that has to nudge the players off of the "wrong" plot. To my way of thinking if the DM has to nudge the players onto the plot then that IS the wrong plot and the one the players are pursuing is the right one. The DM needs to know what the plot is to guide the narrative but it is the players who decide what the plot is. Notice I said "guide the narrative" not "dictate the narrative." The DM has to be able to create the encounters that allow the players to move the plot forward. The DM also has to be able to organize the plot so that players with divergent goals are not going in different directions all at once. The DM doesn't decide what the goals are - the DM decides when and in what order they are achieved. [/QUOTE]
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