Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
From Loose to Tight - the Oscillation of Editions and D&D Next
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6066794" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I bought the 4e core books when they were released in mid-2008, and started my campaign in Jan 2009 (after my previous, Rolemaster campaign reached its conclusion).</p><p></p><p>I'm happy to accept that I had a deep understanding of the rules (based on reading the books closely, and following [MENTION=386]LostSoul[/MENTION]'s threads on these boards), but I didn't have any play experience with the game when I started GMing it. And I didn't have any trouble getting the sort of game I wanted. (I used Night's Dark Terror, an old B/X modue, as the source for my material.)</p><p></p><p>I think I found 4e easier to understand because to me it signalled a whole host of <em>departures</em> from some traditional ways of playing D&D (like the adventure path or the dungeon/sandbox), and seemed very obviously influenced by indie ideas around thematically laden characters confronted by situations the GM has deliberately designed to speak to those thematic concerns.</p><p></p><p>This was a GMing approach I had stumbled towards on my own over the course of 20-ish years (starting with the mid-80s Oriental Adventures). You have to ignore a lot of traditional GMing advice to get there (for example, a lot of traditional advice lambasts metagaming and emphasises world-building over encounter design). I was helped in understanding what I was trying to do, and subsequently in recognising how 4e could help me do it, by my discovery of The Forge in 2004.</p><p></p><p>I think WotC were too coy in the 4e books, not sufficiently willing to explain how best results from the game required keeping some aspects of the past - like an adventure path, good encounter design matters; like a classic sandbox, player freedom of action is crucial - but abandoning others. For instance, part of the payoff of the ease of monster building and encounter design in 4e is that you don't have to plan out a railroad in adventure path style: you can respond to the players' choices, and the resolution of past scenes, in framing the new ones. And part of the payoff of points-of-light is that it creates a backdrop in which thematically responsive encounters can be framed on the fly without disrupting the verisimilitude of the setting.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION], we cross-posted. Thanks for the kind words. I agree that Chris Perkins' DM Experience column has good stuff in it, but it's a pity that it is confined to that format, which I don't think has the same sort of uptake or impact as a rulebook would.</p><p></p><p>I've never seen DMing for Dummies so didn't know about the cut-and-paste you mention. I can add, though, that the Robin Laws stuff from DMG2 is cut-and-pasted from his HeroQuest revised, and it shows badly: the two games are different enough in their mechanics that adaptation was required to make HQ techniques work in 4e.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6066794, member: 42582"] I bought the 4e core books when they were released in mid-2008, and started my campaign in Jan 2009 (after my previous, Rolemaster campaign reached its conclusion). I'm happy to accept that I had a deep understanding of the rules (based on reading the books closely, and following [MENTION=386]LostSoul[/MENTION]'s threads on these boards), but I didn't have any play experience with the game when I started GMing it. And I didn't have any trouble getting the sort of game I wanted. (I used Night's Dark Terror, an old B/X modue, as the source for my material.) I think I found 4e easier to understand because to me it signalled a whole host of [I]departures[/I] from some traditional ways of playing D&D (like the adventure path or the dungeon/sandbox), and seemed very obviously influenced by indie ideas around thematically laden characters confronted by situations the GM has deliberately designed to speak to those thematic concerns. This was a GMing approach I had stumbled towards on my own over the course of 20-ish years (starting with the mid-80s Oriental Adventures). You have to ignore a lot of traditional GMing advice to get there (for example, a lot of traditional advice lambasts metagaming and emphasises world-building over encounter design). I was helped in understanding what I was trying to do, and subsequently in recognising how 4e could help me do it, by my discovery of The Forge in 2004. I think WotC were too coy in the 4e books, not sufficiently willing to explain how best results from the game required keeping some aspects of the past - like an adventure path, good encounter design matters; like a classic sandbox, player freedom of action is crucial - but abandoning others. For instance, part of the payoff of the ease of monster building and encounter design in 4e is that you don't have to plan out a railroad in adventure path style: you can respond to the players' choices, and the resolution of past scenes, in framing the new ones. And part of the payoff of points-of-light is that it creates a backdrop in which thematically responsive encounters can be framed on the fly without disrupting the verisimilitude of the setting. EDIT: [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION], we cross-posted. Thanks for the kind words. I agree that Chris Perkins' DM Experience column has good stuff in it, but it's a pity that it is confined to that format, which I don't think has the same sort of uptake or impact as a rulebook would. I've never seen DMing for Dummies so didn't know about the cut-and-paste you mention. I can add, though, that the Robin Laws stuff from DMG2 is cut-and-pasted from his HeroQuest revised, and it shows badly: the two games are different enough in their mechanics that adaptation was required to make HQ techniques work in 4e. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
From Loose to Tight - the Oscillation of Editions and D&D Next
Top