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<blockquote data-quote="Voss" data-source="post: 3946968" data-attributes="member: 57593">OK, on the subpar side, I don't need to know the exact specifications of everything to know that if one person is spending resources to do something that someone else gets for free, they are paying *more*.&nbsp; 1 &gt; 0.&nbsp; Thats subpar.&nbsp; On the 'too good' side, if the feat gives the power for free, you can cherry pick 'per encounter' abilities, which are better than normal attacks.&nbsp; If the # of per encounter abilities you have is &gt;= average number of rounds in a combat, you're in easy street.&nbsp;&nbsp; You kill enemies faster, take less damage and and spread around the joy of unrelated bonuses (like the paladin smite healing and ac bonuses).&nbsp; Heck, this could be too good even if the feat doesn't give a power for free and you have to spend power slots to pick up out of class powers.&nbsp;&nbsp; Now, maybe there is a hard cap on how many per encounter powers you can have, but there hasn't been any indication of it so far. If there is, it severely limits the class training feat, almost to the point of making it worthless. But generally even one or two extra per encounter abilities will be better than making normal attacks, using the paladin's smites as a baseline.&nbsp; (All do x2 damage).&nbsp; So we're back to subpar or too good.So, subpar or too good.&nbsp; If you want to come up with a case where its equal, I'd like to see it.&nbsp; Shooting people with arrows?&nbsp; What more do you want from an archer?And not being locked into a secondary role that has nothing to do with shooting people with arrows?&nbsp; Presumably a decent fighter class would be good at something out of combat, but it doesn't have to be stapled down and required.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Voss, post: 3946968, member: 57593"] OK, on the subpar side, I don't need to know the exact specifications of everything to know that if one person is spending resources to do something that someone else gets for free, they are paying *more*. 1 > 0. Thats subpar. On the 'too good' side, if the feat gives the power for free, you can cherry pick 'per encounter' abilities, which are better than normal attacks. If the # of per encounter abilities you have is >= average number of rounds in a combat, you're in easy street. You kill enemies faster, take less damage and and spread around the joy of unrelated bonuses (like the paladin smite healing and ac bonuses). Heck, this could be too good even if the feat doesn't give a power for free and you have to spend power slots to pick up out of class powers. Now, maybe there is a hard cap on how many per encounter powers you can have, but there hasn't been any indication of it so far. If there is, it severely limits the class training feat, almost to the point of making it worthless. But generally even one or two extra per encounter abilities will be better than making normal attacks, using the paladin's smites as a baseline. (All do x2 damage). So we're back to subpar or too good. So, subpar or too good. If you want to come up with a case where its equal, I'd like to see it. Shooting people with arrows? What more do you want from an archer? And not being locked into a secondary role that has nothing to do with shooting people with arrows? Presumably a decent fighter class would be good at something out of combat, but it doesn't have to be stapled down and required. [/QUOTE]

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