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<blockquote data-quote="Imban" data-source="post: 3949654" data-attributes="member: 29206">Sadly, he's completely right - unless you're at least close to the top-tier at something in games like this, you might as well not even try. Seriously, let's take this as a reasonable extrapolation - clearly, we don't know everything so far, but I'll try to keep things reasonable:Fighters have the best attack bonus available in the game, as well as hit points.Rangers have the best attack bonus available in the game, and just under the best hit points.Fighters have at-will, per-encounter, and per-day powers that manifest in the form of weapon tricks that require them to equip the appropriate weapon, in this case, a weapon which is not a bow.Rangers have at-will, per-encounter, and per-day powers that manifest in the form of weapon tricks that require them to equip the appropriate weapon, in this case, a bow.The Fighter, by taking up a bow, is actively disregarding essentially all of his class abilities - he is essentially changing himself into a Warrior, to use a 3e analogy. The Ranger is not - in fact, the Ranger is playing to his strengths.While there's clearly a reason why a Fighter may want to carry a bow - for example, perhaps the party Warlord is fond of using Feather Me Yon Oaf, or perhaps the DM enjoys running monsters who attempt to mount a running battle against the Fighter, firing at him while retreating quickly, and doing something with a bow is better than doing nothing - a player who looks at this and comes to the conclusion that a Fighter doesn't &quot;auto-fail&quot; at archery is just kidding themselves....Of course, almost nothing I said above is confirmed, so take that all with a grain of salt. I was just trying to explain where Voss's &quot;auto-fail&quot; comment is coming from. (There's also how roll numbers tend to diverge as levels are gained in 3e, but they've made comments as to &quot;preserving the sweet spot&quot; which lead me to believe they may not be as divergent, which was the main cause of this &quot;auto-fail&quot;. Of course, they may be, grain of salt, etc.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Imban, post: 3949654, member: 29206"] Sadly, he's completely right - unless you're at least close to the top-tier at something in games like this, you might as well not even try. Seriously, let's take this as a reasonable extrapolation - clearly, we don't know everything so far, but I'll try to keep things reasonable: Fighters have the best attack bonus available in the game, as well as hit points. Rangers have the best attack bonus available in the game, and just under the best hit points. Fighters have at-will, per-encounter, and per-day powers that manifest in the form of weapon tricks that require them to equip the appropriate weapon, in this case, a weapon which is not a bow. Rangers have at-will, per-encounter, and per-day powers that manifest in the form of weapon tricks that require them to equip the appropriate weapon, in this case, a bow. The Fighter, by taking up a bow, is actively disregarding essentially all of his class abilities - he is essentially changing himself into a Warrior, to use a 3e analogy. The Ranger is not - in fact, the Ranger is playing to his strengths. While there's clearly a reason why a Fighter may want to carry a bow - for example, perhaps the party Warlord is fond of using Feather Me Yon Oaf, or perhaps the DM enjoys running monsters who attempt to mount a running battle against the Fighter, firing at him while retreating quickly, and doing something with a bow is better than doing nothing - a player who looks at this and comes to the conclusion that a Fighter doesn't "auto-fail" at archery is just kidding themselves. ... Of course, almost nothing I said above is confirmed, so take that all with a grain of salt. I was just trying to explain where Voss's "auto-fail" comment is coming from. (There's also how roll numbers tend to diverge as levels are gained in 3e, but they've made comments as to "preserving the sweet spot" which lead me to believe they may not be as divergent, which was the main cause of this "auto-fail". Of course, they may be, grain of salt, etc.) [/QUOTE]

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