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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3884801" data-attributes="member: 4937">If there is any misframing of the debate going on, it isn't necessarily by people on 'my' side of the debate.&nbsp; If you read Gloombunny, Wolfspider, and myself I think it is pretty clear that we aren't concerned with keeping the game free of 'WoW' influences.&nbsp; The dumb idea just happens to be associated with video games.&nbsp; It's a dumb idea all the same, no less or more so because of its source.IMO, the charges that 'my' side of the debate is trying to poison the well by bring up MMORPGs or that we are trying to close debate on the subject by bring up MMORGPs, are really themselves attempts to poison the well and close debate.&nbsp; It's like bringing up Godwin's Law in an attempt to win the debate.No one is suggesting that they should have rejected the idea out of hand because it comes from a computer game.You'll notice that I put some of the words of your quote in bold.&nbsp; Just so we are clear, guidelines and suggestions are not rules.&nbsp; Guidelines and suggestions by there very nature are flexible and subject to interpretation, DM judgement, and circumstance.&nbsp;&nbsp; (One obvious difference between suggestions and rules, is that you can't program suggestions into a computer.&nbsp; A computer needs rules.&nbsp; It can't interpret and use its judgement.)&nbsp; There are indications that they are keeping guidelines and suggestions about how to run a monster in the game, and there are and will be very few complaints about that.&nbsp; The implication of them dropping an aggro system is that at one time they had a mechanical resolution for pervasively determining which monster attacked which character, and that system could be deterministically manipulated as part of core game play.&nbsp; We have no idea what the details of that, and I for one never assumed that the system had been ported directly from anything else computer game or otherwise.&nbsp; However, I think I never cared what the details were.&nbsp; It's a bad idea because figuring out that sort of thing is what DMs are for, and they'll do it far better than any mechanical system.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3884801, member: 4937"] If there is any misframing of the debate going on, it isn't necessarily by people on 'my' side of the debate. If you read Gloombunny, Wolfspider, and myself I think it is pretty clear that we aren't concerned with keeping the game free of 'WoW' influences. The dumb idea just happens to be associated with video games. It's a dumb idea all the same, no less or more so because of its source. IMO, the charges that 'my' side of the debate is trying to poison the well by bring up MMORPGs or that we are trying to close debate on the subject by bring up MMORGPs, are really themselves attempts to poison the well and close debate. It's like bringing up Godwin's Law in an attempt to win the debate. No one is suggesting that they should have rejected the idea out of hand because it comes from a computer game. You'll notice that I put some of the words of your quote in bold. Just so we are clear, guidelines and suggestions are not rules. Guidelines and suggestions by there very nature are flexible and subject to interpretation, DM judgement, and circumstance. (One obvious difference between suggestions and rules, is that you can't program suggestions into a computer. A computer needs rules. It can't interpret and use its judgement.) There are indications that they are keeping guidelines and suggestions about how to run a monster in the game, and there are and will be very few complaints about that. The implication of them dropping an aggro system is that at one time they had a mechanical resolution for pervasively determining which monster attacked which character, and that system could be deterministically manipulated as part of core game play. We have no idea what the details of that, and I for one never assumed that the system had been ported directly from anything else computer game or otherwise. However, I think I never cared what the details were. It's a bad idea because figuring out that sort of thing is what DMs are for, and they'll do it far better than any mechanical system. [/QUOTE]

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