Front-line roguish sneak-bluffing fighters

[BVB]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone discuss the effectiveness of a rogue in front-line combat utilizing a combination of his sneak attacks and bluff-feinting to do additional damage.

Is it a productive character progression, and can you be as successful in melee that way as a thundering tank core fighter?

 

[hong]

Such a character would be making extensive use of Spring Attack and/or Improved Feint to get a sneak attack in, then move out of the front line, I think. If you get caught by the bad guys, you're toast, because you probably won't have the AC or hit points to take punishment. It can be a lot of fun, but it's also a high-risk tactic. Even more high-risk in 3.5E now that they're cutting back on the movement specials like boots of S&S.

 

[BVB]

Yeah, you definitely wouldn't expect to take on a three guys at the same time like Mr. Tank would. At least by 8th rogue level, though, you'd improve your flanking risk.

I'd think something close to a 50/50% rogue/fighter progression would be very effective, making use of additional feats to make sure you could deliver those +Xd6 sneak attacks up close and personal. If you're going to define yourself as the No. 2 frontline combatant, I think at least four fighter levels would be appropriate (and the related three feats!).

 

[Storminator]

When you feint in combat the opponent now gets to add his BAB to his Sense Motive check. So make sure you can pump that Bluff check up!

PS

 

[Emiricol]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone discuss the effectiveness of a rogue in front-line combat utilizing a combination of his sneak attacks and bluff-feinting to do additional damage.

Is it a productive character progression, and can you be as successful in melee that way as a thundering tank core fighter?

Forget spring attack - the bluff check is a standard action. But, I've done. It takes one rank in Rogue, but the combination is very effective. Especially if you have the Knockdown feat! Yep, nothing like a low level Rog1/Ftr2 with a greatsword and sneak attack bluffing, then smacking you for mass damage, which then knocks you down...

EDIT: With a good Tumble skill, this fighter need never take another rank of rogue, can wear full plate or whatever, and skill tumble by to get flanks and all. And with bluff, they don't need to flank to get the Sneak Attack damage bonus, which you need to consistently get the Knockdown feat to trigger.

 

[Desdichado]

My suggestions: get high ranks in Tumble to get the heck out of the way when things go bad, and pair yourself up with a standard issue tank, so you can be the flanker. The issues this type of "fighter" will have are lack of good hit points (unless you've got a monster CON score), lack of good BAB progression, and lack of high AC (probably can't wear better than light or at best medium armor and do all those rogish tricks.)

If you do go that route, I'd suggest gunning for the duelist PrC to get some better combat-specific abilities. Also, the Fencer alt.fighter in Dragon 310 might pull this off well too, now that I think of it -- and you certainly get more feats to pull the concept together quicker.

 

[BVB]

My suggestions: get high ranks in Tumble to get the heck out of the way when things go bad, and pair yourself up with a standard issue tank, so you can be the flanker. The issues this type of "fighter" will have are lack of good hit points (unless you've got a monster CON score), lack of good BAB progression, and lack of high AC (probably can't wear better than light or at best medium armor and do all those rogish tricks.)

If you do go that route, I'd suggest gunning for the duelist PrC to get some better combat-specific abilities. Also, the Fencer alt.fighter in Dragon 310 might pull this off well too, now that I think of it -- and you certainly get more feats to pull the concept together quicker.

re Duelist route: Actually, I don't see much benefit in branching off into that prestige class if you've already taken rogue/fighter levels. The standard fighter feats available at the higher levels more than compensate for whatever a duelist gains.

 

[reveal]

Re: Re: Front-line roguish sneak-bluffing fighters

EDIT: With a good Tumble skill, this fighter need never take another rank of rogue, can wear full plate or whatever, and skill tumble by to get flanks and all.

Actually, you can't Tumble if your speed has been reduced by armor. So, basically, you can't Tumble wearing anything above Light Armor. And in 3.5 only a Dwarf could Tumble in Full Plate since his speed is not reduced by heavier armor.

 

[Emiricol]

Hrm. Makes sense, really. I just thought it was armor check penalty, which is not that big a deal with enough skill points.

Still, light armors or some types of Medium armors would do okay. Or just ditch Tumble and stick with Bluff/Sneak Attack/Knockdown w/greatsword

 

[dagger]

Do you think a 3.5 Ranger/Rogue would be as effective in this type of role?