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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 8019696" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!Hehe...no, no it didn't. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I decided to play it "straight faced" to give you a chance to reflect on what you said 'between the lines'. Which was basically what you just said now.My behaviour as a DM has done the exact opposite of what you said. Two of the 6'ish players (it fluctuated between 3 and 7, but usually there were 5 or 6 players) were definitely of the "murder hobo" mindset when they first bellied up to my table back in 2005. They were used to 3e, where money and magic are plentiful. The world I DM is Greyhawk or one of my personal campaign settings...and in them, large cities with walls have taxes/tithes. Entry into the city costs a certain amount of coin, usually based on the wealth of the individual entering. Adventurers are typically rich. My players PC's were not...I'm an admittedly stingy DM, but my players were NOTORIOUS for getting so excited and wrapped up in a battle or situation that after it was all over...treasure was the last thing on their mind. They wanted to 'bask in the glory of victory', or quickly get home so they could lick their wounds and recover. It was only after I started pointing out all the times they just "found the leader...defeated said leader...and left". It was a very amusing after session, for sure. They all suddenly realized that for YEARS (literally...YEARS) they were just 'leaving'. We discovered it was likely because their previous DM used only "adventure path style" adventures (3.x and even 2e before that). Things were always "handed to them" or they were "spoon fed" where to go next. They never actually ever played a real (IMNSHO) Campaign...just 'adventure paths' and 'single, long adventures'. Anyway, once I started to get them used to thinking for themselves, they started asking normal questions...like... "Can I buy some land in this town? Maybe a nice house in the Garden District?", which lead to the details of taxes/tithes, expected military support from them due to their particular "expertise" (re: actual Adventurers with actual Levels in an actual Class), and all that stuff you so wonderfully described as...ahem... "..you literally try and shake them down...".Did you ever stop to think that the reason YOUR players may perceive this style in such a negative way is because you have 'trained' them to just accept only things you 'give' them and only positive things? That any negative/detrimental 'thing' that is out of their hands that happens to their PC's is seen as a direct attack by you, the DM? My players didn't and still don't. They understand that I'm the DM...I run "the world". They understand that the world doesn't care about their feelings, and it sure as heck doesn't "owe them anything"; they are not "destined to be hero's, loved by all" simply by writing down "Cleric, 1st Level, NG". .. .. .. Maybe ask yourself why you think of my suggestions as "screwing with the PC's and turning them into murder hobo's".In a Nutshell: If the Players are fixated on hoarding everything they get...or see any non-positive thing that happens to them as the DM trying to 'screw with them'....perhaps everyone at the table needs to sit down and talk about how they see the game and the role of the Players, and the DM, when playing it.EDIT: I just thought of another thing that might be a factor: player age/maturity. My players are all in their late 30's or 40's. They have/had significant others, husbands/wives, kids, jobs, responsibilities, car payments, rent/mortgage payments, food bills, fuel costs, etc. So maybe the idea of paying taxes/tithes isn't seen as 'stealing' or 'getting screwed', but just something that simply "is". It adds believability to the world and helps them relate to their PC's and NPC's. .. .. Maybe you and/or your players are younger and not used to doing that yet? Anyway...just a thought. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

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