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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 5108567" data-attributes="member: 177">To quote the 1e DMG (pg 9):"Know the game systems, and you will know how and when to take upon yourself the ultimate power.  To be the final arbiter, rather than the interpreter of the rules, can be a difficult and demanding task, and it cannot be undertaken lightly."And the 2e DMG (pg103):"Here are some tricks you can use...To fix things, the DM can have the monsters flee in inexplicable panic; secretly lower their hit points; allow the player characters to hit or inflict more damage than they really should; have the monsters miss on attacks when they actually hit...."And the 3e DMG (pg 17):"Do you cheat?  The answer: the DM really can't cheat...Even if you do decide that sometimes it's okay to fudge a little to let the characters survive so the game can continue, don't let the players in on the decision."And the 4e DMG (pg 14):"Rolling behind the screen lets you fudge if you want to."It appears as an allowable tool for DMs in the rules of several different editions.  It may appear in more, but I don't have the rulebooks to check.  I therefore find statements that it is "cheating" for DMs to be a little weak.At least twice in this thread I have said I sometimes run with fudging, and sometimes without.  And I'm pretty sure I have not ever said one must fudge, or must not. So, no, I mean to insist no such thing.  If you got the impression that I did insist so, we have failed to communicate.My intent does not imply anything about the intent of others, unfortunately.  Well, if I read you right, you don't fudge rolls at all.  You cannot fudge in secret if you don't fudge at all.Is the reason you don't fudge at all the same reason that I don't hand the players maps, stat blocks, and room descriptions before the game?  I couldn't begin to guess.I've found several quotes noting specifically that the DM fudging is seen as allowable.  I looked, and cannot find one where player fudging is allowed. If that is not easy enough to follow, it may be beyond my ability to help you follow it better.And if you won't recognize the difference between a generalization and a decree, then I'm afraid you'll come across as unreasonable.The rulebooks of games with GM/Player divisions are usually rife with statements that add up to how the GM has adventure and encounter editorial control and rules-arbitration control, and the players generally don't.  You can play otherwise, if you wish, but that doesn't mean the generalization isn't sound.Fudging is an editorial and rules-arbitration tool.  Given that the GM has the control over such things, and the players generally don't, it makes sense that the GM gets to fudge, but the players don't.I am excepting action points and similar mechanics from "fudging", as they are explicitly allowed player alternatives, rather than impromptu deviations from the rules and usual processes of the game.Yes, that's fine.  If you'd gotten that I was arguing otherwise, I'd be interested in learning how.</blockquote>

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