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<blockquote data-quote="FrankTrollman" data-source="post: 1161215" data-attributes="member: 14225">I'm pretty sure that the grapple rules do not supercede the natural weapon rules and allow you to iterative attacks with natural weapons. Natural weapons are just in a list of other options that happen to already be usable iteratively - it never says anything about disregarding the normal natural weapon attack restrictions so I can't see it doing that.Regardless, whichever reading you have - this does not change the fact that seemingly a Brown Bear's Improved Grab ability is disadvantageous. A Brown Bear does not have a high enough BAB to get any iterative attacks and normally has three attacks. It can start a grapple as a free action, but it loses two of its attacks, takes a -4 penalty to-hit with its only remaining attack, and suffers defensive penalties against any and all other enemies.The bear loses significantly - and seems to gain nothing. I know that either I or the author have completely missed something important.-Frank</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrankTrollman, post: 1161215, member: 14225"] I'm pretty sure that the grapple rules do not supercede the natural weapon rules and allow you to iterative attacks with natural weapons. Natural weapons are just in a list of other options that happen to already be usable iteratively - it never says anything about disregarding the normal natural weapon attack restrictions so I can't see it doing that. Regardless, whichever reading you have - this does not change the fact that seemingly a Brown Bear's Improved Grab ability is [i]disadvantageous[/i]. A Brown Bear does not have a high enough BAB to get any iterative attacks and normally has three attacks. It can start a grapple as a free action, but it loses two of its attacks, takes a -4 penalty to-hit with its only remaining attack, and suffers defensive penalties against any and all other enemies. The bear loses significantly - and seems to gain nothing. I know that either I or the author have completely missed something important. -Frank [/QUOTE]

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