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Full round attacks
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<blockquote data-quote="Kerrick" data-source="post: 5098018" data-attributes="member: 4722"><p>You could... but wouldn't it be simpler to say "1 round = 1 full-round action"?</p><p></p><p></p><p>No, sorry. I've seen a lot of folks who come across as "I think this is the best way, and if you don't do it this way, you're wrong." I try to do my best to avoid that - I just point out things that I think are flaws, and if someone chooses to do it another way, that's their prerogative. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Mostly I'm opposed to tossing out perfectly good rules without a really good reason. Let's see...</p><p></p><p><strong>Charge- run + attack</strong>: That's pretty much what it is anyway. You can move up to 2x speed and make 1 attack.</p><p></p><p><strong>Coup de Grace- standard action</strong>: Already mentioned this.</p><p></p><p><strong>Escape from a net- standard action (entangled condition restricts move anyway)</strong>: </p><p></p><p><strong>Extinguish a flame- standard action</strong>: Could go either way (standard or full).</p><p></p><p><strong>Full attack- standard action</strong>: </p><p></p><p><strong>Light a torch- standard action</strong>: Not unless you've got a Bic lighter. If you're using flint/tinder, it could easily take a full round to light one. If you're lighting it off another flame, then yeah - standard or even free action.</p><p></p><p><strong>Load a crossbow- standard action (light and hand move action)</strong>: You ever tried loading a heavy crossbow? You have to put it down, stick your foot in the stirrup, crank it, lay the bolt in, then raise it again. That's a full-round action.</p><p></p><p><strong>Lock or unlock a weapon gauntlet- standard action</strong>: *shrug*</p><p></p><p><strong>Move 5' through difficult terrain- ignore this rule</strong>: I'll cover this below.</p><p></p><p><strong>Prepare to throw a splash weapon- standard action</strong>: This one I'll agree with - it shouldn't take that long to pull out a splash weapon.</p><p></p><p><strong>Run- move action but x2 speed (run + run = x4 speed)</strong>: The problem I have with this is the nomenclature. x2 speed is a hustle; x3/x4 is a run. You can already make a double move (x2 speed) as a full-round action; if you change that to mean "run" (but only in combat) you'll confuse people:</p><p></p><p>Player: I want to run.</p><p></p><p>DM: How far?</p><p></p><p>Player: Just 60 feet (he has a 30 speed)</p><p></p><p>DM: That's a double move.</p><p></p><p>Player: No, it's a run now.</p><p></p><p>DM: *boggles* Then what's a run?</p><p></p><p>That's why I changed run x4 to "dash" and run x5 to "sprint" - to eliminate confusion.</p><p></p><p><strong>Use a skill that takes 1 round- most require you to stay and not move to complete the skill anyway</strong>: Well, yeah.. that's why they're full-round actions.</p><p></p><p><strong>Use a touch spell on up to 6 friends- limit this by speed rather than an arbitrary number</strong>: Assuming they're all within a, say, 10-foot radius, how do you determine this? 6 is based on the number of seconds in a round - 1 person per second.</p><p></p><p><strong>Withdraw- 5' step + run</strong>: I think I mentioned this before... if you can make a double move as a standard action, why keep the 5-foot step?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Right, I get that. See my explanation above.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Now that, I like. I changed flat-footed to be a flat -4 penalty. 90+% of monsters have a worse flat-footed AC now than before, AND high-Dex PCs aren't penalized as badly.</p><p></p><p>So to expand on this if you are in heavy armor you only move x1.5 for each move action and if you have the run feat you move x2.5 for ever move action. Additionally, if you down grade your standard action to a move action you will be able to take two run actions. Example: 30 speed, character wants to run for both of his actions, he will move 60 and 60 again (120). Which is the same as having took the full round action.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Right... but like I said - if you can move and full attack, why keep the 5-foot step? It's superfluous.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The exceptions are because 5-foot steps don't provoke AoOs - they want to prevent players from moving right up to 10 feet away, then taking a step into a threatened area and not provoking the AoO.</p><p></p><p>The part about not being to do it in darkness or difficult terrain is the same thing - since movement is already hampered in both situations, it makes sense that a 5-foot step would be outright prohibited (though I .</p><p></p><p></p><p>Right.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Two things: Why should monsters get more benefits? Like I said, they already do an equivalent amount of damage, with their natural attacks they way they are.</p><p></p><p>Second, if you want to give fighter-types the ability to make a full move and a full attack, why not just make a high-level feat that requires, say, +12 or +15 BAB? That would pretty well exclude everyone else.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is for monsters? Don't forget that secondary attacks are at -5; if you keep that, they'd be -4/-9, and get two attacks with each natural weapon. Not a very good tradeoff, IMO.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It does in feat cost, yeah - that's why someone finally convinced me to change TWF so that the second, third, and fourth offhand attacks are automatically gained with higher BAB - second at +6, third at +11, and fourth at +16. The penalties still apply, of course, but you don't have to sink four feats into it to gain the same damage output as a two-hander.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kerrick, post: 5098018, member: 4722"] You could... but wouldn't it be simpler to say "1 round = 1 full-round action"? No, sorry. I've seen a lot of folks who come across as "I think this is the best way, and if you don't do it this way, you're wrong." I try to do my best to avoid that - I just point out things that I think are flaws, and if someone chooses to do it another way, that's their prerogative. :) Mostly I'm opposed to tossing out perfectly good rules without a really good reason. Let's see... [B]Charge- run + attack[/B]: That's pretty much what it is anyway. You can move up to 2x speed and make 1 attack. [B]Coup de Grace- standard action[/B]: Already mentioned this. [B]Escape from a net- standard action (entangled condition restricts move anyway)[/B]: [B]Extinguish a flame- standard action[/B]: Could go either way (standard or full). [B]Full attack- standard action[/B]: [B]Light a torch- standard action[/B]: Not unless you've got a Bic lighter. If you're using flint/tinder, it could easily take a full round to light one. If you're lighting it off another flame, then yeah - standard or even free action. [B]Load a crossbow- standard action (light and hand move action)[/B]: You ever tried loading a heavy crossbow? You have to put it down, stick your foot in the stirrup, crank it, lay the bolt in, then raise it again. That's a full-round action. [B]Lock or unlock a weapon gauntlet- standard action[/B]: *shrug* [B]Move 5' through difficult terrain- ignore this rule[/B]: I'll cover this below. [B]Prepare to throw a splash weapon- standard action[/B]: This one I'll agree with - it shouldn't take that long to pull out a splash weapon. [B]Run- move action but x2 speed (run + run = x4 speed)[/B]: The problem I have with this is the nomenclature. x2 speed is a hustle; x3/x4 is a run. You can already make a double move (x2 speed) as a full-round action; if you change that to mean "run" (but only in combat) you'll confuse people: Player: I want to run. DM: How far? Player: Just 60 feet (he has a 30 speed) DM: That's a double move. Player: No, it's a run now. DM: *boggles* Then what's a run? That's why I changed run x4 to "dash" and run x5 to "sprint" - to eliminate confusion. [B]Use a skill that takes 1 round- most require you to stay and not move to complete the skill anyway[/B]: Well, yeah.. that's why they're full-round actions. [B]Use a touch spell on up to 6 friends- limit this by speed rather than an arbitrary number[/B]: Assuming they're all within a, say, 10-foot radius, how do you determine this? 6 is based on the number of seconds in a round - 1 person per second. [B]Withdraw- 5' step + run[/B]: I think I mentioned this before... if you can make a double move as a standard action, why keep the 5-foot step? Right, I get that. See my explanation above. Now that, I like. I changed flat-footed to be a flat -4 penalty. 90+% of monsters have a worse flat-footed AC now than before, AND high-Dex PCs aren't penalized as badly. So to expand on this if you are in heavy armor you only move x1.5 for each move action and if you have the run feat you move x2.5 for ever move action. Additionally, if you down grade your standard action to a move action you will be able to take two run actions. Example: 30 speed, character wants to run for both of his actions, he will move 60 and 60 again (120). Which is the same as having took the full round action. Right... but like I said - if you can move and full attack, why keep the 5-foot step? It's superfluous. The exceptions are because 5-foot steps don't provoke AoOs - they want to prevent players from moving right up to 10 feet away, then taking a step into a threatened area and not provoking the AoO. The part about not being to do it in darkness or difficult terrain is the same thing - since movement is already hampered in both situations, it makes sense that a 5-foot step would be outright prohibited (though I . Right. Two things: Why should monsters get more benefits? Like I said, they already do an equivalent amount of damage, with their natural attacks they way they are. Second, if you want to give fighter-types the ability to make a full move and a full attack, why not just make a high-level feat that requires, say, +12 or +15 BAB? That would pretty well exclude everyone else. This is for monsters? Don't forget that secondary attacks are at -5; if you keep that, they'd be -4/-9, and get two attacks with each natural weapon. Not a very good tradeoff, IMO. It does in feat cost, yeah - that's why someone finally convinced me to change TWF so that the second, third, and fourth offhand attacks are automatically gained with higher BAB - second at +6, third at +11, and fourth at +16. The penalties still apply, of course, but you don't have to sink four feats into it to gain the same damage output as a two-hander. [/QUOTE]
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