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<blockquote data-quote="Brother MacLaren" data-source="post: 2216685" data-attributes="member: 15999">I started off by noting that such bonuses give more of a benefit to TWF than to THF.&nbsp; You pointed out the greater marginal increase in damage does go to the TWF when a full attack is taken, but not when a single attack is taken.&nbsp; Point granted.&nbsp; TWF should focus on abilities to allow multiple attacks even when moving.You then assumed I was saying that this could make TWF as good overall as THF, though I said no such thing.&nbsp; I'm an agnostic on the topic because I haven't fully crunched the numbers on every combination of the various options. &nbsp; You seem to think you have, and have decided that &quot;no matter how many non-Str bonuses you have, it will never be enough (within standard game mechanics).&quot;&nbsp; I refuse to concede that point, as there are a lot of feats, spells, options, and class abilities out there - many of which appear to benefit the TWF.&nbsp; I am still undecided.&nbsp; One of the highest non-Str bonuses to damage (after Sneak Attack) is Favored Enemy.&nbsp; What isn't clear, and where TWF could really benefit its most common practitioner, is to make the Ranger &quot;virtual feats&quot; count as prereqs for other feats and prestige classes.And, if I meant &quot;doing as well as or better than the THF style,&quot; I'd have said that rather than &quot;doing quite well.&quot;&nbsp; Because I don't know how they compare when these various abilities are combined and when &quot;probable&quot; situations are assessed, I didn't say the former.&nbsp; I absolutely stand by this: I did not say TWF and THF are balanced.&nbsp; I've pointed out the various strengths of the THF style along with some strengths of the TWF style without saying which one is better overall.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Brother MacLaren, post: 2216685, member: 15999"] I started off by noting that such bonuses give more of a benefit to TWF than to THF. You pointed out the greater marginal increase in damage does go to the TWF when a full attack is taken, but not when a single attack is taken. Point granted. TWF should focus on abilities to allow multiple attacks even when moving. You then assumed I was saying that this could make TWF as good overall as THF, though I said no such thing. [I]I'm an agnostic on the topic because I haven't fully crunched the numbers on every combination of the various options. [/I] You seem to think you have, and have decided that "no matter how many non-Str bonuses you have, it will never be enough (within standard game mechanics)." I refuse to concede that point, as there are a lot of feats, spells, options, and class abilities out there - many of which appear to benefit the TWF. I am still undecided. One of the highest non-Str bonuses to damage (after Sneak Attack) is Favored Enemy. What isn't clear, and where TWF could really benefit its most common practitioner, is to make the Ranger "virtual feats" count as prereqs for other feats and prestige classes. And, if I meant "doing as well as or better than the THF style," I'd have said that rather than "doing quite well." Because I don't know how they compare when these various abilities are combined and when "probable" situations are assessed, I didn't say the former. I absolutely stand by this: I did [I]not [/I] say TWF and THF are balanced. I've pointed out the various strengths of the THF style along with some strengths of the TWF style without saying which one is better overall. [/QUOTE]

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