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<blockquote data-quote="danielinthewolvesden" data-source="post: 1657121" data-attributes="member: 19889">Ladieeees &amp; gentlemen! In this corner- weighing in at 185# is Conan the 40th level TWF, with every TWF feat that exists.&nbsp; He swings something like 10 times a round. He has two epic level magic light weapons that he has known how to use since birth.In this corner- weighing in at 98#-is Irving the 0 level commoner.&nbsp; He has chosen a Dire Flail. He doesn't even know which end to hold.Every &quot;critical fumble&quot; system that I have seen has Conan fumbling more often than Irving.&nbsp; Conan roles a 1 every second round- and Irving rolls one once every 20 rounds.The system where you roll a Dex check DC 10 means that Conan (dex of 40) still fails on a 1. Thus, he fumbles once every 20 rounds. Irving has a DEX of 10- so he fails the check 45% of the time. Thus he fumbles once every 40 rounds or so.With the &quot;roll again to miss&quot; we must assume the two are fighting things with AC's in their range. With Conan, that means he misses half the time- and thus he fumbles every 4th round. Irving is pretty bad off with a -4 to his BAB of 0, so he misses 3/4s of the time. Thus, he fumbles once every 30 rounds or so.Thats why every single Fumble system I have seen is stupid,and fumbles that can last after that one combat is over are even more unfair to the PC's (see Scharlata's post.&nbsp; Unles of course- as a DM- you randomly have groups of monster have their weaposn broken prior to combat becuase of &quot;fumbles&quot; earlier.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="danielinthewolvesden, post: 1657121, member: 19889"] Ladieeees & gentlemen! In this corner- weighing in at 185# is Conan the 40th level TWF, with every TWF feat that exists. He swings something like 10 times a round. He has two epic level magic light weapons that he has known how to use since birth. In this corner- weighing in at 98#-is Irving the 0 level commoner. He has chosen a Dire Flail. He doesn't even know which end to hold. Every "critical fumble" system that I have seen has Conan fumbling more often than Irving. Conan roles a 1 every second round- and Irving rolls one once every 20 rounds. The system where you roll a Dex check DC 10 means that Conan (dex of 40) still fails on a 1. Thus, he fumbles once every 20 rounds. Irving has a DEX of 10- so he fails the check 45% of the time. Thus he fumbles once every 40 rounds or so. With the "roll again to miss" we must assume the two are fighting things with AC's in their range. With Conan, that means he misses half the time- and thus he fumbles every 4th round. Irving is pretty bad off with a -4 to his BAB of 0, so he misses 3/4s of the time. Thus, he fumbles once every 30 rounds or so. Thats why every single Fumble system I have seen is stupid,and fumbles that can last after that one combat is over are even more unfair to the PC's (see Scharlata's post. Unles of course- as a DM- you randomly have groups of monster have their weaposn broken prior to combat becuase of "fumbles" earlier. [/QUOTE]

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