Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Fun And The Flow In Games
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="lewpuls" data-source="post: 7723312" data-attributes="member: 30518"><p>If you're going to design games, or GM RPGs, it helps to understand a little bit about what makes games enjoyable. Game publishers often say in their guidelines for designers "game must be fun," but I've always found this to be useless because fun means different things to different people.</p><p></p><p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH]88142[/ATTACH]</p><p>[PRBREAK][/PRBREAK]</p><p></p><p>I used to ask gamers who like to play chess, whether they regarded it as fun; about half do and half don't. It may be engaging, it may be enjoyable, it may be fascinating, but it's not fun for many of them. I like to use the terms enjoyable or interesting. I think that fun comes from the people you play games with, and the circumstances. So you can have fun playing <strong>Monopoly</strong>, even though <strong>Monopoly </strong>is a really dull game and not well-designed. Certainly there are games that are intended to be funny, often party games, but that's funny, not fun.</p><p></p><p><em>"When baseball is no longer fun, it's no longer a game." </em> -- Joe DiMaggio</p><p> </p><p>We can still ask, though, why do people enjoy some games more than others? A Czech researcher who worked in the USA identified “the positive aspects of human experience - joy, creativity, the process of total involvement with life I call flow." For game purposes people have an optimal experience when they are challenged, but not challenged too much. If somebody has low skills in the game and the challenges are high they're going to be anxious. If they're very skillful and there's not much challenge in a game they're going to be bored, it's too easy. You want people to be in that Flow area where the challenge matches the skills.</p><p> </p><p>That's partly done with levels in <strong>Dungeons & Dragons</strong>. The deeper you go in a traditional dungeon, the tougher it is, so as your characters get better they go deeper into the dungeon. It doesn't make sense from a "realistic" point of view, but it works, and the technique has been adopted by video games. As you play the video game, and you become more skilled and your character gains capabilities, the levels become more difficult. This keeps players in the Flow.</p><p> </p><p>Raph Koster characterized games as learning in a safe environment: players learn and they become better as they play the game, so the game has to adjust. If it's a GMed game, the GM has to adjust the challenge level. If it's a video game, then the designers have to provide adjustable challenge. If it's a tabletop game, and the player is playing with other people who are also getting better at the game, the challenge will increase.</p><p> </p><p>But for good pacing you need to vary the challenge so that sometimes there's a lot of tension, because it's difficult, and sometimes the player can relax because it's relatively easy. You want ups and downs in games, just as in life, because that makes the ups more delicious.</p><p> </p><p>Another time I'll talk about MDA and "8 Kinds of Fun."</p><p> </p><p>Reference:</p><p>Csikszentmikalyi: <em>Flow: the Psychology of Optimal Experience</em> (1990), p. xi</p><p>Raph Koster: <em>A Theory of Fun for Game Design</em> (2010, 2013)</p><p></p><p><em>contributed by Lewis Pulsipher</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="lewpuls, post: 7723312, member: 30518"] If you're going to design games, or GM RPGs, it helps to understand a little bit about what makes games enjoyable. Game publishers often say in their guidelines for designers "game must be fun," but I've always found this to be useless because fun means different things to different people. [CENTER][ATTACH=CONFIG]88142[/ATTACH][/CENTER] [PRBREAK][/PRBREAK] I used to ask gamers who like to play chess, whether they regarded it as fun; about half do and half don't. It may be engaging, it may be enjoyable, it may be fascinating, but it's not fun for many of them. I like to use the terms enjoyable or interesting. I think that fun comes from the people you play games with, and the circumstances. So you can have fun playing [B]Monopoly[/B], even though [B]Monopoly [/B]is a really dull game and not well-designed. Certainly there are games that are intended to be funny, often party games, but that's funny, not fun. [I]"When baseball is no longer fun, it's no longer a game." [/I] -- Joe DiMaggio We can still ask, though, why do people enjoy some games more than others? A Czech researcher who worked in the USA identified “the positive aspects of human experience - joy, creativity, the process of total involvement with life I call flow." For game purposes people have an optimal experience when they are challenged, but not challenged too much. If somebody has low skills in the game and the challenges are high they're going to be anxious. If they're very skillful and there's not much challenge in a game they're going to be bored, it's too easy. You want people to be in that Flow area where the challenge matches the skills. That's partly done with levels in [B]Dungeons & Dragons[/B]. The deeper you go in a traditional dungeon, the tougher it is, so as your characters get better they go deeper into the dungeon. It doesn't make sense from a "realistic" point of view, but it works, and the technique has been adopted by video games. As you play the video game, and you become more skilled and your character gains capabilities, the levels become more difficult. This keeps players in the Flow. Raph Koster characterized games as learning in a safe environment: players learn and they become better as they play the game, so the game has to adjust. If it's a GMed game, the GM has to adjust the challenge level. If it's a video game, then the designers have to provide adjustable challenge. If it's a tabletop game, and the player is playing with other people who are also getting better at the game, the challenge will increase. But for good pacing you need to vary the challenge so that sometimes there's a lot of tension, because it's difficult, and sometimes the player can relax because it's relatively easy. You want ups and downs in games, just as in life, because that makes the ups more delicious. Another time I'll talk about MDA and "8 Kinds of Fun." Reference: Csikszentmikalyi: [I]Flow: the Psychology of Optimal Experience[/I] (1990), p. xi Raph Koster: [I]A Theory of Fun for Game Design[/I] (2010, 2013) [I]contributed by Lewis Pulsipher[/I] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Fun And The Flow In Games
Top