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<blockquote data-quote="Nareau" data-source="post: 909045" data-attributes="member: 969">LokiDR, I have to respectfully disagree with your interpretations of &quot;interaction&quot; and &quot;incontrovertible proof&quot;We consider &quot;interaction&quot; to be combat (where the illusion and the combatant don't make physical contact) or conversation.&nbsp; We also include other non-physical situations where the character acts upon the illusion, and the illusion has to react somehow.We consider &quot;incontrovertible proof&quot; to be physical contact, or the illusion doing something really bizarre.Try to blow out an illusory fire:&nbsp; Saving throw.&nbsp; You're acting on it, and it's having to react appropriately.Stick your hand in illusory fire:&nbsp; Incontrovertible proof.&nbsp; Since the fire is incapable of burning you, you immediately know it's not real.&nbsp; You can feel that it's hot...but your flesh isn't burning away.Swing at the illusory orc, and miss:&nbsp; Saving throw.&nbsp; There's just something funny about how it was able to dodge that blow...Swing at the illusory orc, and hit:&nbsp; IP.&nbsp; Your sword went right through the thing!&nbsp; It can't be real.Swing at the illusory wraith, and hit:&nbsp; ST.&nbsp; Wraiths are incorporeal, so it may just be that you can't hurt this thing.Touch an illusory wall:&nbsp; IP.&nbsp; The illusion is not solid.&nbsp; Your hand passes right through it.&nbsp; It's obviously not real.Examine an illusory wall:&nbsp; ST.&nbsp; By looking very closely at it, you may see some flaw in the illusion.I'd also not let the illusion replicate a darkness spell, as it's not creating an &quot;object, creature, or force.&quot;&nbsp; Not to mention that it would be pretty cheesy.Nor would I allow you to &quot;make a whole bunch of pits appear in the hallway behind you.&quot;&nbsp; Again, that's not an &quot;object, creature, or force.&quot;I do agree with you that the Image spells should be able to create multiple objects, creatures, or forces so long as they remain within the AoE.Some of the things I've used illusions for:Major Image:&nbsp; Fire Wall.&nbsp; I used it to carve a path through a river of swarming rats.&nbsp; Most of the rats didn't get a saving throw as they were just trying to escape the heat.&nbsp; Even the ones that did get saves failed them, as the DC was very high.&nbsp; Included in the effect were the sounds and smells of hundreds of burning rats.Major Image:&nbsp; Ghostly Forest.&nbsp; I used it to illuminate the battlefield, slow down an enemy, and provide some concealment to my allies.Major Image:&nbsp; Swarm of Angels.&nbsp; I used it to confuse and irritate a Roc that was attacking my friends.I think illusions are great for the Sorcerer class.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nareau, post: 909045, member: 969"] LokiDR, I have to respectfully disagree with your interpretations of "interaction" and "incontrovertible proof" We consider "interaction" to be combat (where the illusion and the combatant don't make physical contact) or conversation. We also include other non-physical situations where the character acts upon the illusion, and the illusion has to react somehow. We consider "incontrovertible proof" to be physical contact, or the illusion doing something really bizarre. Try to blow out an illusory fire: Saving throw. You're acting on it, and it's having to react appropriately. Stick your hand in illusory fire: Incontrovertible proof. Since the fire is incapable of burning you, you immediately know it's not real. You can feel that it's hot...but your flesh isn't burning away. Swing at the illusory orc, and miss: Saving throw. There's just something funny about how it was able to dodge that blow... Swing at the illusory orc, and hit: IP. Your sword went right through the thing! It can't be real. Swing at the illusory wraith, and hit: ST. Wraiths are incorporeal, so it may just be that you can't hurt this thing. Touch an illusory wall: IP. The illusion is not solid. Your hand passes right through it. It's obviously not real. Examine an illusory wall: ST. By looking very closely at it, you may see some flaw in the illusion. I'd also not let the illusion replicate a darkness spell, as it's not creating an "object, creature, or force." Not to mention that it would be pretty cheesy. Nor would I allow you to "make a whole bunch of pits appear in the hallway behind you." Again, that's not an "object, creature, or force." I do agree with you that the Image spells should be able to create multiple objects, creatures, or forces so long as they remain within the AoE. Some of the things I've used illusions for: Major Image: Fire Wall. I used it to carve a path through a river of swarming rats. Most of the rats didn't get a saving throw as they were just trying to escape the heat. Even the ones that did get saves failed them, as the DC was very high. Included in the effect were the sounds and smells of hundreds of burning rats. Major Image: Ghostly Forest. I used it to illuminate the battlefield, slow down an enemy, and provide some concealment to my allies. Major Image: Swarm of Angels. I used it to confuse and irritate a Roc that was attacking my friends. I think illusions are great for the Sorcerer class. [/QUOTE]

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