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<blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 5455366" data-attributes="member: 58197">I wholeheartedly agree with Soren Johnson. One of my biggest complaints about 4E is the way many rules became unmoored from any concrete concept within the game world. The rules do not have to simulate the game world, but they need to make sense in an intuitive way, so that DMs and players can easily switch back and forth between manipulating the rules and imagining the events taking place in the game world.See for example the recent thread about &quot;Hurting to Heal,&quot; where a cleric player expresses his sense that all the cleric powers where you zap somebody in order to make your ally better seem... off. It's very hard to figure out what's supposed to be happening in the game world when you use those powers--what's the logical connection between &quot;I zap the monster with holy light&quot; and &quot;Bob the fighter feels healthier?&quot; (This problem seems to come up a lot with divine classes in 4E.) It's a real pain when trying to narrate combat.Older editions of D&amp;D, for all their failings in other areas, understood this. 4E lost sight of it for a while (although I think it has begun to remember it; Essentials does a much better job than core 4E in this regard).I have seen and participated in threads on these forums discussing castle construction in a fantasy world (with attendant arguments over flying enemies, teleporting wizards, and quite a lot more); dungeon treasure and economics; the thematic background of D&amp;D, including wuxia, fantasy fiction, and various other sources; and the origins and nature of different types of magic, including divine.I admit, I have not seen a thread discussing rules for ambient lighting in a trilunar world, nor on the differences between argentian and aurean dracocracy. But in general... you're flat wrong. All this stuff gets hashed out at great length on ENWorld and other forums. The fact that this stuff can actually make a difference in-game is what sets real RPGs apart from the computer variety. If you're not seeing it, perhaps it's because you're not looking for it; doesn't mean it isn't there.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dausuul, post: 5455366, member: 58197"] I wholeheartedly agree with Soren Johnson. One of my biggest complaints about 4E is the way many rules became unmoored from any concrete concept within the game world. The rules do not have to [i]simulate[/i] the game world, but they need to [i]make sense[/i] in an intuitive way, so that DMs and players can easily switch back and forth between manipulating the rules and imagining the events taking place in the game world. See for example the recent thread about "Hurting to Heal," where a cleric player expresses his sense that all the cleric powers where you zap somebody in order to make your ally better seem... off. It's very hard to figure out what's supposed to be happening in the game world when you use those powers--what's the logical connection between "I zap the monster with holy light" and "Bob the fighter feels healthier?" (This problem seems to come up a lot with divine classes in 4E.) It's a real pain when trying to narrate combat. Older editions of D&D, for all their failings in other areas, understood this. 4E lost sight of it for a while (although I think it has begun to remember it; Essentials does a much better job than core 4E in this regard). I have seen and participated in threads on these forums discussing castle construction in a fantasy world (with attendant arguments over flying enemies, teleporting wizards, and quite a lot more); dungeon treasure and economics; the thematic background of D&D, including wuxia, fantasy fiction, and various other sources; and the origins and nature of different types of magic, including divine. I admit, I have not seen a thread discussing rules for ambient lighting in a trilunar world, nor on the differences between argentian and aurean dracocracy. But in general... you're flat wrong. All this stuff gets hashed out at great length on ENWorld and other forums. The fact that this stuff can [i]actually make a difference in-game[/i] is what sets real RPGs apart from the computer variety. If you're not seeing it, perhaps it's because you're not looking for it; doesn't mean it isn't there. [/QUOTE]

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