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<blockquote data-quote="BASHMAN" data-source="post: 4134549" data-attributes="member: 8277">So today I finally got to PLAY 4e (instead of DMing it w/ the preview materials).&nbsp; I played the dwarf fighter, and aside from my daily, only used one maneuver-- Tide of Iron.&nbsp; I had me a lot of fun with that.&nbsp; I used it to push 2 enemies off the top of a 30' tower, and then in the final combat, we were fighting a demon that had to be pushed into a pool of sulfer to be defeated.&nbsp; 3 rounds in a row I use Tide of Iron to push him back.&nbsp; When he tried to move to get away, I did my AOO w/ +2 to stop him from leaving (I had already marked him) and then pushed him into it.&nbsp; It was really coo....&nbsp; fun.&nbsp; Our group consisted of a Fighter (me), Warlock, &amp; Ranger.&nbsp; So a Defender &amp; 2 Strikers.&nbsp; We had no cleric, no paladin, no potions, &amp; no problems getting through 6 encounters (2 of which were w/ demons) and never had to take a 6 hour rest (though the last fight we all came close to taking an eternal rest).This is interesting b/c earlier that day, I GMed twice.&nbsp; Both were TPKs.&nbsp; First was the Wizard &amp; Rogue, refusing the help on an NPC paladin, and later try to kill him (and die for their trouble).&nbsp; There was some fun RP in this session (bargaining w/ the dragon instead of fighting it).&nbsp; There was also some very creative use of cantrips to avoid a fight-- since a cantrip is a minor action, you can cast 3 per round.&nbsp; From hiding, the wizard mage-handed a skull into the air and moved its mouth like a sock puppet, used Light to make its eyes glow, and ghost sound to make it say KILL YOU in draconic to a bunch of kobolds.&nbsp;&nbsp; Every fight I ran I did by the book using recomended XP values, but they kept getting creamed (no defender I think). Second game I ran &quot;Escape from Zanzer's Dungeon&quot; (there is almost enough materials in preview stuff to just run it).&nbsp; This time the party was a Cleric, Rogue, NPC Berserker, &amp; Wizard.&nbsp; Again, no defender, and again, TPK.&nbsp; They made it to the gnolls (which I had made &quot;Claw fighters&quot; (a party of 4 facing 2 of them) and they were EVICERATED by them.&nbsp; They had a ton of HP, could get 2 attacks/ round w/ +5 DMG per attack on top of the regular.&nbsp; Pack attack is GROSS. So something I think I'll do is halve the HP that monsters have, and halve the XP per monster (slower advancement that way-- 1 level /20 fights).&nbsp; People complained how tough the danged kobolds were.&nbsp; The fights in general seemed to drag on way too long.&nbsp; I also think that a party cannot succeed w/o a defender to draw aggro &amp; deal hefty damage.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="BASHMAN, post: 4134549, member: 8277"] So today I finally got to PLAY 4e (instead of DMing it w/ the preview materials). I played the dwarf fighter, and aside from my daily, only used one maneuver-- Tide of Iron. I had me a lot of fun with that. I used it to push 2 enemies off the top of a 30' tower, and then in the final combat, we were fighting a demon that had to be pushed into a pool of sulfer to be defeated. 3 rounds in a row I use Tide of Iron to push him back. When he tried to move to get away, I did my AOO w/ +2 to stop him from leaving (I had already marked him) and then pushed him into it. It was really coo.... fun. Our group consisted of a Fighter (me), Warlock, & Ranger. So a Defender & 2 Strikers. We had no cleric, no paladin, no potions, & no problems getting through 6 encounters (2 of which were w/ demons) and never had to take a 6 hour rest (though the last fight we all came close to taking an eternal rest). This is interesting b/c earlier that day, I GMed twice. Both were TPKs. First was the Wizard & Rogue, refusing the help on an NPC paladin, and later try to kill him (and die for their trouble). There was some fun RP in this session (bargaining w/ the dragon instead of fighting it). There was also some very creative use of cantrips to avoid a fight-- since a cantrip is a minor action, you can cast 3 per round. From hiding, the wizard mage-handed a skull into the air and moved its mouth like a sock puppet, used Light to make its eyes glow, and ghost sound to make it say KILL YOU in draconic to a bunch of kobolds. Every fight I ran I did by the book using recomended XP values, but they kept getting creamed (no defender I think). Second game I ran "Escape from Zanzer's Dungeon" (there is almost enough materials in preview stuff to just run it). This time the party was a Cleric, Rogue, NPC Berserker, & Wizard. Again, no defender, and again, TPK. They made it to the gnolls (which I had made "Claw fighters" (a party of 4 facing 2 of them) and they were EVICERATED by them. They had a ton of HP, could get 2 attacks/ round w/ +5 DMG per attack on top of the regular. Pack attack is GROSS. So something I think I'll do is halve the HP that monsters have, and halve the XP per monster (slower advancement that way-- 1 level /20 fights). People complained how tough the danged kobolds were. The fights in general seemed to drag on way too long. I also think that a party cannot succeed w/o a defender to draw aggro & deal hefty damage. [/QUOTE]

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