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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Urbannen" data-source="post: 1094897" data-attributes="member: 7643">I admit that I didn't read the sidebar as "can."  Wow.  That's bad game mechanics.  "You can use either this number for your max ranks or you can use that number."  "You can take a feat at this level or at that level."  "You can take an ability adjustment at this level or that level."  Characters with LA can choose whichever level advancement method is most convenient for their character.  The players have the choice, according to the sidebar.  I thought that SS came before ELH because ELH references it.  Oops.  The problem remains - they both give contradictory definitions of ECL.  Don't you agree that there should be one inclusive definition of this important term?  The Sage's ruling clarifies the discrepancy.  Another problem is that Table 1-2 says specifically that the feat gained at 21st character level is the character's 8th feat.  Again, the sidebar contradicts this, since the feat the character gains at 21st ECL is not necessarily his 8th.  The Sage's column clarifies the issue.  The fact that there is only one creature in the ELH (the ha-naga) that follows this rule could be seen as either a mistake or proof of the authors' intent.  The paragon mindflayer gets those epic feats as bonus feats from the paragon template, and a character doesn't have to meet prerequisites in order to get bonus feats.  Edit:  The paragon template doesn't give five epic feats as bonus feats.  It gives 2 extra feats besides the base creature's.  The epic mindflayer given has way, way more feats than that, which look like an error.  Even if you say that the mindflayer gets the feats of a 26th level epic character (it's CR), it still has too many epic feats.It may be that the intent of some of the designers was to say "Once a character's ECL reaches 21, he may choose to take an epic feat for any feat gained from character levels, even if his character level is not yet 21."  That is not actually what the sidebar says, however.  What it does say is pretty sloppily written.  The Sage doesn't say "Yes, your epic ECL character with fewer than 21 HD can take epic feats and here's how." I would have no problem if that was how the rule were clarified.  Instead he says, "Only use character level when determining any level dependent features."  Who's right - the confusing sidebar or the Sage?  Well, "officially" the Sage is right.  Apparently there is only one printed feat that is affected by his clarification - the Ha-Naga's one epic feat.  In order to "prove" the Sage wrong, I think you'd have to cite a game designer specifically contradicting him on this point.  I am going to send the question about epic feats and LA'd characters into WotC customer service.  I don't have high hopes about an enlightening response, but maybe I'm missing something in the Sage's clarification.</blockquote>

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