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<blockquote data-quote="Nathal" data-source="post: 486347" data-attributes="member: 1809">But in D&amp;D 3rd Edition are not such characters considered duds? Is it not common for a player to re-roll if they recognize that the character statistics don't match the requirements for effective use of the class abilities? How many players actually use the 3d6 &quot;straight-down-the-line method for stats?&nbsp; So sure, it's possible to create a character that can't contribute meaningfully in combat, buts it's hardly an issue because such characters are usually scrapped and re-rolled from the outset.&nbsp; The point is that there are systems which allows for character creation wherein the character may not seem &quot;broken&quot; because there is no class requirements against which to judge his/her effectiveness. Right, and such characters in D&amp;D would not be considered viable I'd imagine or would be at a disadvantage.&nbsp; This is because 3rd Edition is a combat-oriented game from the get-go.&nbsp; In other systems a character who puts his points into high INT and CHA at the expense of combat ability would not always be at a disadvantage.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Because maybe the Game Master does not focus on combat.&nbsp; I consider D&amp;D games that do not focus on combat to be against the design of the system in spirit, although there is nothing wrong with it in practice.&nbsp; I only feel that other game systems lend themselves better to more &quot;role-playing&quot; intensive styles.Exactly.&nbsp; The focus of 3rd Edition is power, combat prowess and being effective as a combat unit.&nbsp; It doesn't make too much sense to me to create a &quot;diplomat&quot; character to travel with the typical D&amp;D party.&nbsp; That is why I shake my head at the idea of a Call of Chutulu D20 game.&nbsp; Has anybody played that game and felt that it worked with D20?&nbsp; So again I state that &quot;game balance&quot; is a concern of those who enjoy combat-oriented games for the most part.&nbsp; There is nothing wrong with that!&nbsp; I run combat heavy games and so D&amp;D is not a bad choice for me, and just about any game system can support the basic hack &amp; slash.&nbsp; But I find game balance as it relates to power between PCS goes out the window as the focus changes from hack &amp; slash to PC-driven plot.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nathal, post: 486347, member: 1809"] But in D&D 3rd Edition are not such characters considered duds? Is it not common for a player to re-roll if they recognize that the character statistics don't match the requirements for effective use of the class abilities? How many players actually use the 3d6 "straight-down-the-line method for stats? So sure, it's possible to create a character that can't contribute meaningfully in combat, buts it's hardly an issue because such characters are usually scrapped and re-rolled from the outset. The point is that there are systems which allows for character creation wherein the character may not seem "broken" because there is no class requirements against which to judge his/her effectiveness. Right, and such characters in D&D would not be considered viable I'd imagine or would be at a disadvantage. This is because 3rd Edition is a combat-oriented game from the get-go. In other systems a character who puts his points into high INT and CHA at the expense of combat ability would not always be at a disadvantage. Why? Because maybe the Game Master does not focus on combat. I consider D&D games that do not focus on combat to be against the design of the system in spirit, although there is nothing wrong with it in practice. I only feel that other game systems lend themselves better to more "role-playing" intensive styles. Exactly. The focus of 3rd Edition is power, combat prowess and being effective as a combat unit. It doesn't make too much sense to me to create a "diplomat" character to travel with the typical D&D party. That is why I shake my head at the idea of a Call of Chutulu D20 game. Has anybody played that game and felt that it worked with D20? So again I state that "game balance" is a concern of those who enjoy combat-oriented games for the most part. There is nothing wrong with that! I run combat heavy games and so D&D is not a bad choice for me, and just about any game system can support the basic hack & slash. But I find game balance as it relates to power between PCS goes out the window as the focus changes from hack & slash to PC-driven plot. [/QUOTE]

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