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<blockquote data-quote="Nathal" data-source="post: 486785" data-attributes="member: 1809"><p>All characters go up in hit points, saving throws, attack bonuses, etc. All characters have access to feats that make them more effective in combat, or in surviving in such situations. Everything in D&D is geared toward that, regardless if it is acheived through thief like skills, raw combat power, spells, or whatever. It's obvious.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not so. I AM talking about common practice, which players and GM take up because of the nature of the rule set. Sure, you can play a different kind of game if you want by using the rules in a way that is not in total alignment with the focus of their design. And that's just fine. But D&D would not be my first choice for a gritty, realistic, "high-risk of death" sort of campaign with a simulationist bent to combat. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Non sequitur. I am not talking about how you personally deviate from the spirit of the rules or how you run your game. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, allow a character with a 6 or a 5 in most statistics run through the average adventure module and see how well he fares...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In D&D that character with a focus on Diplomancy would still have enough hit points at a given level to remain consistent with the group power level. Not so in GURPS. What I'm talking about is not a condemnation of D&D! I'm pointing out that certain games have "failsafes" against party members being too weak against the average level, while other systems have no such failsafe. Thus D&D is more combat oriented. It's very simple.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I know that. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What is the underlying problem in your opinion?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Uh, the designers of the game! The WOTC artists, the brand managers, etc. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What do you mean, "so?" Its a simple observation that D&D as a class-and-level system allows characters whose focus is not entirely combat to still survive along with the group because they get more powerful...without effort or point allocation. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think it would be easier to play in a system like GURPs a game that is less than of heroic proportions. I'm not saying it can't be done with D&D, but at that point you are FAR away from it's spirit and focus. No condemnation of that fact here, mind you, it's a simple and obvious fact. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It is D20 and a class and level system. Characters get more powerul, right? I may be wrong if PCs do not gain extra hit points and attack bonuses at higher levels, but I doubt it. Such is not the case in the Chaosism system judging by what I've been told (death rate is very high in that game by all accounts).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is what I'm talking about! You've hit the nail on the head. That amount of rope you speak of is the measure by which I judge the games focus on combat issues. Nothing more than that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nathal, post: 486785, member: 1809"] All characters go up in hit points, saving throws, attack bonuses, etc. All characters have access to feats that make them more effective in combat, or in surviving in such situations. Everything in D&D is geared toward that, regardless if it is acheived through thief like skills, raw combat power, spells, or whatever. It's obvious. Not so. I AM talking about common practice, which players and GM take up because of the nature of the rule set. Sure, you can play a different kind of game if you want by using the rules in a way that is not in total alignment with the focus of their design. And that's just fine. But D&D would not be my first choice for a gritty, realistic, "high-risk of death" sort of campaign with a simulationist bent to combat. Non sequitur. I am not talking about how you personally deviate from the spirit of the rules or how you run your game. Sure, allow a character with a 6 or a 5 in most statistics run through the average adventure module and see how well he fares... In D&D that character with a focus on Diplomancy would still have enough hit points at a given level to remain consistent with the group power level. Not so in GURPS. What I'm talking about is not a condemnation of D&D! I'm pointing out that certain games have "failsafes" against party members being too weak against the average level, while other systems have no such failsafe. Thus D&D is more combat oriented. It's very simple. I know that. What is the underlying problem in your opinion? Uh, the designers of the game! The WOTC artists, the brand managers, etc. What do you mean, "so?" Its a simple observation that D&D as a class-and-level system allows characters whose focus is not entirely combat to still survive along with the group because they get more powerful...without effort or point allocation. I think it would be easier to play in a system like GURPs a game that is less than of heroic proportions. I'm not saying it can't be done with D&D, but at that point you are FAR away from it's spirit and focus. No condemnation of that fact here, mind you, it's a simple and obvious fact. It is D20 and a class and level system. Characters get more powerul, right? I may be wrong if PCs do not gain extra hit points and attack bonuses at higher levels, but I doubt it. Such is not the case in the Chaosism system judging by what I've been told (death rate is very high in that game by all accounts). That is what I'm talking about! You've hit the nail on the head. That amount of rope you speak of is the measure by which I judge the games focus on combat issues. Nothing more than that. [/QUOTE]
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