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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Game Breaker Spells - What are they?
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 3749991" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Looks like a lot of people here want to nerf a lot of things. Let's take these one by one...</p><p></p><p>Fly. Extremely useful, yes. Game-breaking? No, because: the opposition can cast it too, or the wind is blowing you sideways faster than you can fly against it, or there's a null-magic area that extends upward around location x, or... It's easy to design around, and it's one of those things that gives the players a chance to think outside the box.</p><p></p><p>Teleport. If you just put back the 1e chance of deadly failure, the problem Goes Away after the first wizard becomes one with the rock below her intended arrival point. If people want to keep using it despite the risk, let 'em... Also, enforce some weight restrictions; a single teleport should *not* be able to move an entire party plus gear.</p><p></p><p>Detect Lie (or whatever it's called now). This one's caused me some grief in the past but it's still not broken enough for me to want to fix it.</p><p></p><p>Polymorph (self). This is broken because the 3e designers broke it by allowing it to work on people not the caster. Put it back to being on self only and much of the problem Goes Away.</p><p></p><p>(Baleful) Polymorph (other). Not a problem provided measures are taken to prevent this being used in a non-baleful manner. *Nobody* will receive this willingly. The target becomes the creature in all ways and - if intelligent - will realize what the caster has just done to it and act appropriately (ususlly, this means kill with extreme prejudice). Thus, turning your friend into a dragon becomes extremely unadvisable...</p><p></p><p>Polymorph Any Object. Not familiar with this one but it sounds like a headache looking for a place to happen.</p><p></p><p>Speak With Dead. Not a problem at all. Keep in mind the dead corpse can't tell you what the live corpse didn't know...</p><p></p><p>Save-or-die, in general. Not a problem if kept to a dull roar i.e. only used against by BBEG's in climactic encounters. The problem arises when PCs have access to them and use them on a whim... I don't like the idea of what were interesting effects (disintegrate, stoning) being reduced to mere damage just like everything else.</p><p></p><p>Save-or-freeze, in general. Not a problem at all. So you miss a combat...so what.</p><p></p><p>Find the Path. This one might need reining in a little but as I haven't really had to deal with it I haven't got any bright ideas as to how.</p><p></p><p>Tongues/Comprehend Languages. Essential spells, particularly when character languages are determined by place of birth and-or randomly...or when the party goes to a foreign land. I can't at all see how anyone would think these are broken.</p><p></p><p>Scry (Reflecting Pool and the ilk). Not a game-breaker if the target has a decent chance of noticing the scrying...and excellent when used wisely by the opposition! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Knock. Of all the spells noted (but there's another one not yet hit), this is the only one I intend to fix somehow in order to make Thieves more useful. I might have it not function against physical locks but still work against bars, etc.</p><p></p><p>Find Traps (does 3e even have this?). The other spell I'll fix to give the Thieves a chance, it'll only pull magic traps once I get done.</p><p></p><p>Wish. This spell, to my mind, is *supposed* to be broken! It is *the* spell that should be able to turn things on their ear; simply allowing it to replicate any other spell is not good enough and limits it far too much. That said, it's up to the DM to smack down greedy or over-ambitious uses of Wish by corrupting it beyond the call of duty. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Lanefan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 3749991, member: 29398"] Looks like a lot of people here want to nerf a lot of things. Let's take these one by one... Fly. Extremely useful, yes. Game-breaking? No, because: the opposition can cast it too, or the wind is blowing you sideways faster than you can fly against it, or there's a null-magic area that extends upward around location x, or... It's easy to design around, and it's one of those things that gives the players a chance to think outside the box. Teleport. If you just put back the 1e chance of deadly failure, the problem Goes Away after the first wizard becomes one with the rock below her intended arrival point. If people want to keep using it despite the risk, let 'em... Also, enforce some weight restrictions; a single teleport should *not* be able to move an entire party plus gear. Detect Lie (or whatever it's called now). This one's caused me some grief in the past but it's still not broken enough for me to want to fix it. Polymorph (self). This is broken because the 3e designers broke it by allowing it to work on people not the caster. Put it back to being on self only and much of the problem Goes Away. (Baleful) Polymorph (other). Not a problem provided measures are taken to prevent this being used in a non-baleful manner. *Nobody* will receive this willingly. The target becomes the creature in all ways and - if intelligent - will realize what the caster has just done to it and act appropriately (ususlly, this means kill with extreme prejudice). Thus, turning your friend into a dragon becomes extremely unadvisable... Polymorph Any Object. Not familiar with this one but it sounds like a headache looking for a place to happen. Speak With Dead. Not a problem at all. Keep in mind the dead corpse can't tell you what the live corpse didn't know... Save-or-die, in general. Not a problem if kept to a dull roar i.e. only used against by BBEG's in climactic encounters. The problem arises when PCs have access to them and use them on a whim... I don't like the idea of what were interesting effects (disintegrate, stoning) being reduced to mere damage just like everything else. Save-or-freeze, in general. Not a problem at all. So you miss a combat...so what. Find the Path. This one might need reining in a little but as I haven't really had to deal with it I haven't got any bright ideas as to how. Tongues/Comprehend Languages. Essential spells, particularly when character languages are determined by place of birth and-or randomly...or when the party goes to a foreign land. I can't at all see how anyone would think these are broken. Scry (Reflecting Pool and the ilk). Not a game-breaker if the target has a decent chance of noticing the scrying...and excellent when used wisely by the opposition! :) Knock. Of all the spells noted (but there's another one not yet hit), this is the only one I intend to fix somehow in order to make Thieves more useful. I might have it not function against physical locks but still work against bars, etc. Find Traps (does 3e even have this?). The other spell I'll fix to give the Thieves a chance, it'll only pull magic traps once I get done. Wish. This spell, to my mind, is *supposed* to be broken! It is *the* spell that should be able to turn things on their ear; simply allowing it to replicate any other spell is not good enough and limits it far too much. That said, it's up to the DM to smack down greedy or over-ambitious uses of Wish by corrupting it beyond the call of duty. :) Lanefan [/QUOTE]
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