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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Midknightsun" data-source="post: 3807565" data-attributes="member: 46459">I consider myself a very experienced DM, and my players generally agree.  With that said, many of the spells mentioned cause a lot of grief for me, especially since i have some very clever players.  There's only one of me, and many of them.  Arm them with spells that are easily abusable and its just sick.  Saying that I can do the same thing just causes an arms race that would result in a mutually assured destruction scenario.  I have no problems with magic being special, but i think it can be special without becoming a game where the wizard dominates play completely ( or the Cleric), and everybody else has their lunch money stolen from them, or has to beg for some arcane/divine magicrack to keep up with the casters:  Fighter:  "Hey man  . . . c-c-c-come on Wizdude, just one more Bull's Strength.  I swear, I'm g-g-g-good for it.  Wizard: "Why should I bother, little man, I have already retroactively killed all our enemies and had time to summon this Balor to make some hot wings for us.  I even made him wear a tutu.  Chill out, I'll get that girdle for ya after I rewrite gnomes out of existence. . . and finish scrubbing my toilet already."Fighter:  "B-b-b-ut, I'm soooo lame without your magical goodness on me.  P-p-p-pleeeae just one more hit!"Wizard: "Dammit, buy your own girdle then, ya little girl!  There's gotta be a magic shoppe somewhere that'll take pity on you, and my time is better spent on scrying-and-dying things that annoy me. . . . now where is that Terrasque at . . . "Yeah, the idea that magic balances magic is just nonsense, and doesn't solve the problem.  It means both the problem and the cure is in the hands of high level casters, period.  Everyone else needs to gear up, or shut up.   Problem is, the casters can gear up too . . I think fly is problematic the way it is set up.  Makes it far too easy to ignore terrain and avoid 70% of enemies.Teleport and Find the Path give me indigestion.  Even moderately clever players alter the game significantly with these abilities, and make my job as DM that much more labor intensive.  And frankly, since its a game I shouldn't be thinking it would be easier to go back for my Masters than set up a high level game, but I often do.  And some of the rationales that go into countering spells gets old after a while, for both DM and players.  I agree that the spells should be balanced in and of themselves, not because one or two other spells can block them.Gate and Mord's Disjunction make my puppy cry . . . .I've seen it, its really sad.  Save or dies are a traditional problem for me as well.  I hate the fate of the character being determined by one bad roll, and I think the while idea of the Ressorectimator (just add 5000gp of diamond/diamond dust for activation) is pretty lame.  I'm surprised some of my characters didn't get frequent flyer miles for all the times the crossed into the afterlife and then got yanked back.  Just not fun when it happens as often as the core rules allow.I don't think the spells mentioned necessarily need to be removed, though, but a useful nerfing would definitely be appreciated by this DM.  Hopefully 4e will at least make this less of a concern.</blockquote>

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