Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Game Day mini = Spined Devil
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Adso" data-source="post: 3834114" data-attributes="member: 6706"><p>The goal is not to take away toys, but rather to make toy both simpler for the new or casual DM and more dynamic for the experienced DM. </p><p></p><p>So, what is the spined devil missing? </p><p></p><p>Well the <em>Summon Baatezu...</em>and that ability has always been either useless or problematic. Not only has it never worked very well in the rules space it was allotted (spell-like ability) it’s a real story killer, as DMs are pushed toward fudging that roll to fit their narrative or live with the fact that an encounter with these lawful icons is really friggen random. </p><p></p><p>Here’s my novel approach—if you want more spine devils in an encounter, put more devils in an encounter! If you want them to gate in, have them gate in—the resource of Hell can make it happen in a variety of ways, it doesn’t have to sit entirely in the monster's ability entry. This ability should have always been on the encounter-design/story-design side of the D&D fence, and it wasn't purely because of legacy. Devils had it from the go, for reason that are thematic but strangled by bad rules (IMO). Don’t let the rules hamstring the story, rather let them serve the story and play. </p><p></p><p>Yes, I know, it’s an interesting design stance for a developer to take. </p><p></p><p>Then there is the ever-edition-shifting array of spell-like abilities devils have had. Now I am not saying that all devils should not have spell-like abilities, but I don’t know if all of them or even most of them need it. I think it might even be better to say something like “many devils are versed in the arcane arts” and give the DM guidance for making devils that do this in ways that serve the play and story of a campaign. In this way devil encounters can have just as much variety they need for an encounter or a story, not what the designer thinks you have to have each and every time. Having cooler devils of a type is always neat, it’s another reason to start monsters simply, it makes it easier and more fun the run the better ones. </p><p></p><p>In the end, I think that you can have a simple, very thematic monsters fulfilling legacy and story roles without being slaves to out-dated or just plain bad legacy mechanics. It’s the theme that makes the monster interesting on the narrative side of the game. In short, the rules should serve theme in the best possible way, not the other way around.</p><p></p><p>Just say'n ;-)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Adso, post: 3834114, member: 6706"] The goal is not to take away toys, but rather to make toy both simpler for the new or casual DM and more dynamic for the experienced DM. So, what is the spined devil missing? Well the [I]Summon Baatezu...[/I]and that ability has always been either useless or problematic. Not only has it never worked very well in the rules space it was allotted (spell-like ability) it’s a real story killer, as DMs are pushed toward fudging that roll to fit their narrative or live with the fact that an encounter with these lawful icons is really friggen random. Here’s my novel approach—if you want more spine devils in an encounter, put more devils in an encounter! If you want them to gate in, have them gate in—the resource of Hell can make it happen in a variety of ways, it doesn’t have to sit entirely in the monster's ability entry. This ability should have always been on the encounter-design/story-design side of the D&D fence, and it wasn't purely because of legacy. Devils had it from the go, for reason that are thematic but strangled by bad rules (IMO). Don’t let the rules hamstring the story, rather let them serve the story and play. Yes, I know, it’s an interesting design stance for a developer to take. Then there is the ever-edition-shifting array of spell-like abilities devils have had. Now I am not saying that all devils should not have spell-like abilities, but I don’t know if all of them or even most of them need it. I think it might even be better to say something like “many devils are versed in the arcane arts” and give the DM guidance for making devils that do this in ways that serve the play and story of a campaign. In this way devil encounters can have just as much variety they need for an encounter or a story, not what the designer thinks you have to have each and every time. Having cooler devils of a type is always neat, it’s another reason to start monsters simply, it makes it easier and more fun the run the better ones. In the end, I think that you can have a simple, very thematic monsters fulfilling legacy and story roles without being slaves to out-dated or just plain bad legacy mechanics. It’s the theme that makes the monster interesting on the narrative side of the game. In short, the rules should serve theme in the best possible way, not the other way around. Just say'n ;-) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Game Day mini = Spined Devil
Top