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Game design allow sub optimal class build. Confirmed by M Mearls
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<blockquote data-quote="GreenTengu" data-source="post: 6924460" data-attributes="member: 6777454"><p>Well, that arguement aside, what I was really getting at is that while Elf and Dwarf and most others were designed in such a way that you can play just about any class and receive a meaningful benefit-- i.e. with Elfs, if you are a fighter than getting those martial proficiencies doesn't mean anything and if you are a spell-caster than one more cantrip doesn't generally help you as much it does a non-spellcaster and if you are a Dwarf, then if you choose to be a warrior, cleric or paladin then the armor profiency doesn't help you much and the extra hit points are of marginal benefit (getting 1 extra hit point means a lot more to someone who is getting only 4 per a level otherwise than one who is getting 8) and your martial proficiencies are wasted, but if you are anything else-- then you aren't as mobile as anyone else and the fact that heavy armor doesn't reduce it further does nothing for you. </p><p></p><p>Half-Orc is the stand-out example where literally everything the race gives you kind of drives you to be a Barbarian, Fighter or Paladin.. possibly Cleric... and if you choose any other class then you'd be better off choosing any other race. In fact, since previous editions even Monk has been taken off your options list as it has been transformed into an entirely Dex-based class... and doing Ranger is very iffy as it too is designed as a completely Dex based class. (Seriously, that whole "Dexterity is balanced with Strength" argument is one to have because I see Dexterity being handed absolutely all the benefits). Granted, at least your bonus critical ability and your ability to get back into battle benefit somewhat if you are one of those two you aren't nearly as bad off as if you chose literally any other class in the book... to which you just flat-out suck if you are a Half-Orc.</p><p></p><p>Unless you are going to come back with some what in which a big strength boost and coupled with increased criticals in melee combat only somehow makes you an amazing Sorcerer, Warlock or Wizard.</p><p></p><p>So although many races have been well designed so that it really doesn't matter what your class is so much because every class can benefit to a good degree by the racial abilities if not the attribute... half-orc is the exception.</p><p></p><p>And I have a feeling we'll see a lot more of those exceptions once Volo's guide to monsters as I have a feeling the Firbolg is going to end up being capable of only being effective as a Barbarian and Goblins will probably be so entirely geared towards being Rogues that there will be dangerously subpar as anything else.</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">Okay, well-- that is a different approach. My approach is</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">"the difference in power level between the person who chose the 'ideal' race/class combo and the person who rolled them up randomly won't be very much and may be nearly incidental even without pulling weird build tricks"-- to me that is balance.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'"></span>If instead you are saying that balance is that the assumed opponents from the monster manual are going to lose to PCs but not overwhelmingly so even against optimal PCs... that's a different definition of balance...</p><p></p><p>But, if you have the later and not the former, that means that any player who "knows what they are doing" is going to cake-walk through all supposedly "balanced" encounters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreenTengu, post: 6924460, member: 6777454"] Well, that arguement aside, what I was really getting at is that while Elf and Dwarf and most others were designed in such a way that you can play just about any class and receive a meaningful benefit-- i.e. with Elfs, if you are a fighter than getting those martial proficiencies doesn't mean anything and if you are a spell-caster than one more cantrip doesn't generally help you as much it does a non-spellcaster and if you are a Dwarf, then if you choose to be a warrior, cleric or paladin then the armor profiency doesn't help you much and the extra hit points are of marginal benefit (getting 1 extra hit point means a lot more to someone who is getting only 4 per a level otherwise than one who is getting 8) and your martial proficiencies are wasted, but if you are anything else-- then you aren't as mobile as anyone else and the fact that heavy armor doesn't reduce it further does nothing for you. Half-Orc is the stand-out example where literally everything the race gives you kind of drives you to be a Barbarian, Fighter or Paladin.. possibly Cleric... and if you choose any other class then you'd be better off choosing any other race. In fact, since previous editions even Monk has been taken off your options list as it has been transformed into an entirely Dex-based class... and doing Ranger is very iffy as it too is designed as a completely Dex based class. (Seriously, that whole "Dexterity is balanced with Strength" argument is one to have because I see Dexterity being handed absolutely all the benefits). Granted, at least your bonus critical ability and your ability to get back into battle benefit somewhat if you are one of those two you aren't nearly as bad off as if you chose literally any other class in the book... to which you just flat-out suck if you are a Half-Orc. Unless you are going to come back with some what in which a big strength boost and coupled with increased criticals in melee combat only somehow makes you an amazing Sorcerer, Warlock or Wizard. So although many races have been well designed so that it really doesn't matter what your class is so much because every class can benefit to a good degree by the racial abilities if not the attribute... half-orc is the exception. And I have a feeling we'll see a lot more of those exceptions once Volo's guide to monsters as I have a feeling the Firbolg is going to end up being capable of only being effective as a Barbarian and Goblins will probably be so entirely geared towards being Rogues that there will be dangerously subpar as anything else. [FONT=Verdana][/FONT][FONT=Verdana] Okay, well-- that is a different approach. My approach is "the difference in power level between the person who chose the 'ideal' race/class combo and the person who rolled them up randomly won't be very much and may be nearly incidental even without pulling weird build tricks"-- to me that is balance. [/FONT]If instead you are saying that balance is that the assumed opponents from the monster manual are going to lose to PCs but not overwhelmingly so even against optimal PCs... that's a different definition of balance... But, if you have the later and not the former, that means that any player who "knows what they are doing" is going to cake-walk through all supposedly "balanced" encounters. [/QUOTE]
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