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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Game design allow sub optimal class build. Confirmed by M Mearls
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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 6925000" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>LOL. My friend's 3 year old says this all the time. It's cute as hell <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, what's ironic is you saying you care about everyone's enjoyment in the same sentence inferring you <em>don't</em> care about everyone's enjoyment. Clearly you only care about the enjoyment of players who want to optimize because you're actively hostile to anyone who doesn't.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Player issues, nothing to do with the game. And if I were you, I'd seriously question who you game with to have that many disruptive players, let alone in such a short window. In 35 years of gaming, I can count on one hand the number of disruptive players I've seen on that level, and they were all very short lived in the group</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's completely subjective for one. Secondly, I get the impression that you think anyone who doesn't optimize is making a bad character. Ergo, anyone who doesn't optimize is engaging in counter productive play. And let's just say I don't agree.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Back to the OP, and this is especially true with 5e, is that optimization really doesn't have that much of an impact in the game. How a player plays is WAY more important and impactful. We have a guy in our group who just can't seem to get all the rules down. You have to remind him of some of his class abilities fairly often. When we played our HotDQ/RoT (started a long time ago, finished relatively recently), he brought his character to the table. A rogue. With all of his stats between 16-20.</p><p></p><p>Naturally our reactions were "Wait, what???" Turns out he decided to use 4d6 method without dropping the lowest die. You'd think his character would kick butt compared to everyone elses, and the DM actually let him keep it. Turns out it was one of the most ineffective PCs of the group in combat. Why? Because he didn't position himself to take advantage of sneak attack, so almost all of his attacks were just one weapon+mod. He kept forgetting how to take proper advantage of disengage, and often took a lot of damage because he didn't move away far enough. Stuff like that.</p><p></p><p>Some of you may be asking why we allowed that? Because he is our friend and a nice guy. Two things way more important than a game. Just slow when it comes to things like learning rules. And since none of our players in my group get all worked up if another player has a higher stat in something, it didn't take away from our fun at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 6925000, member: 15700"] LOL. My friend's 3 year old says this all the time. It's cute as hell :) No, what's ironic is you saying you care about everyone's enjoyment in the same sentence inferring you [i]don't[/i] care about everyone's enjoyment. Clearly you only care about the enjoyment of players who want to optimize because you're actively hostile to anyone who doesn't. Player issues, nothing to do with the game. And if I were you, I'd seriously question who you game with to have that many disruptive players, let alone in such a short window. In 35 years of gaming, I can count on one hand the number of disruptive players I've seen on that level, and they were all very short lived in the group That's completely subjective for one. Secondly, I get the impression that you think anyone who doesn't optimize is making a bad character. Ergo, anyone who doesn't optimize is engaging in counter productive play. And let's just say I don't agree. Back to the OP, and this is especially true with 5e, is that optimization really doesn't have that much of an impact in the game. How a player plays is WAY more important and impactful. We have a guy in our group who just can't seem to get all the rules down. You have to remind him of some of his class abilities fairly often. When we played our HotDQ/RoT (started a long time ago, finished relatively recently), he brought his character to the table. A rogue. With all of his stats between 16-20. Naturally our reactions were "Wait, what???" Turns out he decided to use 4d6 method without dropping the lowest die. You'd think his character would kick butt compared to everyone elses, and the DM actually let him keep it. Turns out it was one of the most ineffective PCs of the group in combat. Why? Because he didn't position himself to take advantage of sneak attack, so almost all of his attacks were just one weapon+mod. He kept forgetting how to take proper advantage of disengage, and often took a lot of damage because he didn't move away far enough. Stuff like that. Some of you may be asking why we allowed that? Because he is our friend and a nice guy. Two things way more important than a game. Just slow when it comes to things like learning rules. And since none of our players in my group get all worked up if another player has a higher stat in something, it didn't take away from our fun at all. [/QUOTE]
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