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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5846554" data-attributes="member: 82106">Yeah, I don't think it takes a mathematician to understand the math of an RPG (having a math degree I would have to say there's nothing in 4e math-wise that shouldn't be readily accessible to 8th grade algebra basically). I think there are a couple separate issues here. It is true, flat linear bonuses like to-hit really can start anywhere and the ratio between +1 and +5 won't generally matter for these cases. OTOH I think the "nobody has penalties" concept is valid. It never really feels all that good to be doing something like swinging at -N. Since we can fairly well establish a base minimum weapon competency why not have that be +0? Sure, no PC is likely to be at +0, but so what? It works fine in 4e where +3 is really about the lowest bonus you ever see. Nobody bothers to even make attacks below that if they can possibly help it (IE you never see the wizard swinging his staff with a net +2 to-hit except maybe if he happens to get an OA and might as well give it a shot). I don't think a PC can even get a worst to-hit base than -1 in 4e and that's a corner case.The top end of the scale and rate of progression are a different issue and not really part of this topic, but it seems to me that again it matters not a bit how big or small the base starting number is. Maybe the game only ever allows a max of a +20 or so, but that's a matter of progression of the power curve.Anyway, I agree with the OP on the basic premise when it comes to things like hit points. A 2:1 ratio is a lot more reasonable than the potential 20:1 ratio that existed in AD&D (level 1 16+ CON ranger vs level 1 PC without CON bonus). The numbers could scale back a bit from 4e's numbers and it wouldn't be terrible, though I think the 4e numbers are pretty close to the ideal based on typical weapon damage and hits to knock someone down. I think a 16 hit point PC is really about the minimum that makes sense.</blockquote>

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