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Game Fundamentals - The Illusion of Accomplishment
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5160361" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>No, it's not. Which is one of the reasons I don't want to make this an edition war. </p><p></p><p>However, while 4e is not 'that game', 4e is more in that direction than earlier editions of the game. To list just a few examples, 4e scales everything with level, 4e has no long term status effects, 4e cures pretty much everything with a single long rest, 4e tried to speed combat as a primary goal, 4e gives everyone self healing, greatly boosts power at 1st level so that everyone starts with 'the awesome' immediately, 4e 'fixes the math' (or at least attempted to do so) in the same sort of way games like Diablo fix the math (hense the complaint about 'must numbers always go up?'), 4e refreshes most of your powers on an encounter cycle, 4e tries to make everyone's turn have more options and more interaction, etc. Now, just so we don't get sidetracked again, I'm not here criticizing any of those things. That's not my focus. That's not my goal. Though I am one of the earliest 4e critics, literally launching against it from the very first preview, I have never though 4e got it all wrong. In fact, some of the sacred cow slaying forced me to rethink my own reasoning and there are somethings in my game that are 4e inspired. So let's not make this an edition war, because I'm past that now.</p><p></p><p>4e is not that game, but 4e went in that direction, and both IRL and on the boards I'm hearing increased complaints from 4e gamers that the problem is that 4e didn't go far enough in that direction. Morrus is saying, "Status's suck and they make the game unfun for the players because they force the player to actually or effectively lose a turn (extending the wait between action and reward). What can we do about that?" Chris Simms is saying, "Missing your attack sucks. In WoW you have the expectation of hitting 90% of the time, and the action/reward cycle in D&D is even slower than in WoW, so missing stings more. We need to find ways to reduce the chances of missing." Lots of players are saying, "We need to find ways to make sure that there is less slog/grind in 4e, what can we do to make each round of a long fight have more tension?" </p><p></p><p>And this thread is about examining the underlying assumptions of what makes a game 'fun', and see if there might be other ways of creating a satisfying 'illusion of accomplishment' than to continue to decrease the time involved in the action/reward loop such that PnP games better mimic popular video games.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5160361, member: 4937"] No, it's not. Which is one of the reasons I don't want to make this an edition war. However, while 4e is not 'that game', 4e is more in that direction than earlier editions of the game. To list just a few examples, 4e scales everything with level, 4e has no long term status effects, 4e cures pretty much everything with a single long rest, 4e tried to speed combat as a primary goal, 4e gives everyone self healing, greatly boosts power at 1st level so that everyone starts with 'the awesome' immediately, 4e 'fixes the math' (or at least attempted to do so) in the same sort of way games like Diablo fix the math (hense the complaint about 'must numbers always go up?'), 4e refreshes most of your powers on an encounter cycle, 4e tries to make everyone's turn have more options and more interaction, etc. Now, just so we don't get sidetracked again, I'm not here criticizing any of those things. That's not my focus. That's not my goal. Though I am one of the earliest 4e critics, literally launching against it from the very first preview, I have never though 4e got it all wrong. In fact, some of the sacred cow slaying forced me to rethink my own reasoning and there are somethings in my game that are 4e inspired. So let's not make this an edition war, because I'm past that now. 4e is not that game, but 4e went in that direction, and both IRL and on the boards I'm hearing increased complaints from 4e gamers that the problem is that 4e didn't go far enough in that direction. Morrus is saying, "Status's suck and they make the game unfun for the players because they force the player to actually or effectively lose a turn (extending the wait between action and reward). What can we do about that?" Chris Simms is saying, "Missing your attack sucks. In WoW you have the expectation of hitting 90% of the time, and the action/reward cycle in D&D is even slower than in WoW, so missing stings more. We need to find ways to reduce the chances of missing." Lots of players are saying, "We need to find ways to make sure that there is less slog/grind in 4e, what can we do to make each round of a long fight have more tension?" And this thread is about examining the underlying assumptions of what makes a game 'fun', and see if there might be other ways of creating a satisfying 'illusion of accomplishment' than to continue to decrease the time involved in the action/reward loop such that PnP games better mimic popular video games. [/QUOTE]
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