Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Game Fundamentals - The Illusion of Accomplishment
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="awesomeocalypse" data-source="post: 5160874" data-attributes="member: 85641"><p>I have to say, I don't find the argument that video games are better at delivering instant gratification and rewards than PnP to be a compelling one.</p><p> </p><p>I mean, obviously they're better at providing <em>certain kinds</em> of gratification and rewards. Constant mechanical engagement (i.e. not needing to take turns) is a big one, as are graphics and sound. Writing a higher level on my character sheet is simply not going to be as viscerally satisfying as having holy light shine down on my character while triumphant music plays.</p><p> </p><p>But I think that comparison ignores the sort of gratification and rewards that PnP actually do much better than video games. For one thing, social gratification. The social rewards of single player video games are nonexistant--when I do something awesome in Dragon Age, there's nobody there with me, benefiting from my awesomeness and congratulating or thanking me for it. Multiplayer games are inherantly more social than single player games, but are hampered by the incredibly fractured and largely anonymous nature of the internet--success in an online game may get my screenname onto a leaderboard or earn me a special title or something, but at best all I've done is marginally impress a bunch of strangers who have no idea who I really am (and, since so many people play these games, any one person's success will be both completely relative, and utterly commonplace. anyone who has ever played an MMORPG with titles quickly realizes that when everyone has an "awesome" title, they stop seeming impressive or awesome). The closest online games come to the PNP social experience are close-knit guilds, but even those are typically more anonymous than PNP, less likely to overlap with real-life social circles, and lack the visceral appeal of face-to-face interaction. Someone telling you it was awesome how you killed the dragon is nice when they do it through voicechat, but its better when they're right there telling you to your face.</p><p> </p><p>PNP, on the other hand, is terrific at setting up social rewards. You're right there, playing face to face with your friends and people who actually overlap with your social circle and who know who you are. Moreover, success is typically defined in such a way that those friends will all benefit the more successful you are. Which means that each time you do something cool, although you may not get the nifty graphics, you get something that is, to my mind, even better: all of your friends cheering you on, high fiving you, and telling you how awesome you are. For an "ego-driven" gamer, what could be better?</p><p> </p><p>The other form of gratification/reward that PNP is terrific at are story/setting rewards, i.e. giving your actions significance to the plot and to the world around you. Here, multiplayer games lag behind single player, for the most part--because characters share a world, even with instancing/phasing there are limits to how much any one character can change that world. And since so many people are playing, its impossible for one player or group of players to be "the heroes", because everyone is one of "the heroes". Being the savior of the world doesn't feel quite as badass when you're surrounded by thousands of people who are also world saviors. "Yeah, I know this NPC is telling me I'm terrific for killing that dragon, but if I log in with my alt he's gonna tell him the same thing". Single player games are better about this, but even they offer far less freedom to shape the world than PNP can. A PNP game can be literally shaped around its characters and everything they do, so that when they accomplish something heroic, the story and world acknowledge it and react to it. For an ego-driven gamer, saving the world is a lot cooler when you're the only one doing it and, when you do save the world, the world reacts to that and rewards you for it by treating you like the awesome hero you are. The more single player games try to simulate this, the more likely they are to become either railroady (sure you change the world, provided you do it in this one specificn way) or generic ("Thanks for saving the world [blank]. Your awesome [insert class here] powers really saved the day" isn't as cool as an interaction built around your specific character).</p><p> </p><p>Basically, I think PNP are still better at providing social gratification than even the most social MMORPGs, and I think they're still better at offering up a satisfying story shaped around the protagonist's choices than even the most well-crafted single player RPG. To me, those are two powerful mechanisms of reward and gratification, and as a player who does play in part out of ego and the desire to feel awesome all the time, I find them to be significantly more appealing than the rewards offered by video games.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="awesomeocalypse, post: 5160874, member: 85641"] I have to say, I don't find the argument that video games are better at delivering instant gratification and rewards than PnP to be a compelling one. I mean, obviously they're better at providing [I]certain kinds[/I] of gratification and rewards. Constant mechanical engagement (i.e. not needing to take turns) is a big one, as are graphics and sound. Writing a higher level on my character sheet is simply not going to be as viscerally satisfying as having holy light shine down on my character while triumphant music plays. But I think that comparison ignores the sort of gratification and rewards that PnP actually do much better than video games. For one thing, social gratification. The social rewards of single player video games are nonexistant--when I do something awesome in Dragon Age, there's nobody there with me, benefiting from my awesomeness and congratulating or thanking me for it. Multiplayer games are inherantly more social than single player games, but are hampered by the incredibly fractured and largely anonymous nature of the internet--success in an online game may get my screenname onto a leaderboard or earn me a special title or something, but at best all I've done is marginally impress a bunch of strangers who have no idea who I really am (and, since so many people play these games, any one person's success will be both completely relative, and utterly commonplace. anyone who has ever played an MMORPG with titles quickly realizes that when everyone has an "awesome" title, they stop seeming impressive or awesome). The closest online games come to the PNP social experience are close-knit guilds, but even those are typically more anonymous than PNP, less likely to overlap with real-life social circles, and lack the visceral appeal of face-to-face interaction. Someone telling you it was awesome how you killed the dragon is nice when they do it through voicechat, but its better when they're right there telling you to your face. PNP, on the other hand, is terrific at setting up social rewards. You're right there, playing face to face with your friends and people who actually overlap with your social circle and who know who you are. Moreover, success is typically defined in such a way that those friends will all benefit the more successful you are. Which means that each time you do something cool, although you may not get the nifty graphics, you get something that is, to my mind, even better: all of your friends cheering you on, high fiving you, and telling you how awesome you are. For an "ego-driven" gamer, what could be better? The other form of gratification/reward that PNP is terrific at are story/setting rewards, i.e. giving your actions significance to the plot and to the world around you. Here, multiplayer games lag behind single player, for the most part--because characters share a world, even with instancing/phasing there are limits to how much any one character can change that world. And since so many people are playing, its impossible for one player or group of players to be "the heroes", because everyone is one of "the heroes". Being the savior of the world doesn't feel quite as badass when you're surrounded by thousands of people who are also world saviors. "Yeah, I know this NPC is telling me I'm terrific for killing that dragon, but if I log in with my alt he's gonna tell him the same thing". Single player games are better about this, but even they offer far less freedom to shape the world than PNP can. A PNP game can be literally shaped around its characters and everything they do, so that when they accomplish something heroic, the story and world acknowledge it and react to it. For an ego-driven gamer, saving the world is a lot cooler when you're the only one doing it and, when you do save the world, the world reacts to that and rewards you for it by treating you like the awesome hero you are. The more single player games try to simulate this, the more likely they are to become either railroady (sure you change the world, provided you do it in this one specificn way) or generic ("Thanks for saving the world [blank]. Your awesome [insert class here] powers really saved the day" isn't as cool as an interaction built around your specific character). Basically, I think PNP are still better at providing social gratification than even the most social MMORPGs, and I think they're still better at offering up a satisfying story shaped around the protagonist's choices than even the most well-crafted single player RPG. To me, those are two powerful mechanisms of reward and gratification, and as a player who does play in part out of ego and the desire to feel awesome all the time, I find them to be significantly more appealing than the rewards offered by video games. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Game Fundamentals - The Illusion of Accomplishment
Top