Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Game Fundamentals - The Illusion of Accomplishment
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5162616" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>I've been mulling this one over for a bit.</p><p></p><p>I think there's an element missing from Celebrim's analysis and that's the presumed campaign length that has become fairly codified into D&D design. The market research leading up to 3e showed that (of those that were queried) a campaign lasts about a year, year and a half on average. Now, remember, this was of 2e players, primarily. There's a quote floating around here somewhere from Gygax that stated something to the fact that 10 levels should take about a year of sessions (or so, give or take), which would put a "campaign" length at around the same ball park for earlier editions.</p><p></p><p>3e let that length strongly influence their design. When you presume that a campaign will be about a year and a half, that's about 80 sessions (to pick and easy number, pick another, probably between 60 and 100 if it makes you feel better). Once you make that decision AND you decide that within an average campaign, an average group should be able to hit the entire game, that gives you your advancement rate.</p><p></p><p>In 3e, that means you should bump about every four sessions. Probably a bit quicker. In 4e, that means you should bump better than every three sessions. </p><p></p><p>Is this catering to a certain kind of gamer, or is it recognizing the realities of the player base and designing to that reality? 1e didn't really have a presumed campaign length and, I think, for most gamers, a large chunk of the rules when unused. How many eighth level spells did you actually cast in 1e after all?</p><p></p><p>Once you make those two decisions - that a campaign will last about X number of sessions, and within those sessions, the players should have the opportunity to experience the entire game - you get your rate of reward.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5162616, member: 22779"] I've been mulling this one over for a bit. I think there's an element missing from Celebrim's analysis and that's the presumed campaign length that has become fairly codified into D&D design. The market research leading up to 3e showed that (of those that were queried) a campaign lasts about a year, year and a half on average. Now, remember, this was of 2e players, primarily. There's a quote floating around here somewhere from Gygax that stated something to the fact that 10 levels should take about a year of sessions (or so, give or take), which would put a "campaign" length at around the same ball park for earlier editions. 3e let that length strongly influence their design. When you presume that a campaign will be about a year and a half, that's about 80 sessions (to pick and easy number, pick another, probably between 60 and 100 if it makes you feel better). Once you make that decision AND you decide that within an average campaign, an average group should be able to hit the entire game, that gives you your advancement rate. In 3e, that means you should bump about every four sessions. Probably a bit quicker. In 4e, that means you should bump better than every three sessions. Is this catering to a certain kind of gamer, or is it recognizing the realities of the player base and designing to that reality? 1e didn't really have a presumed campaign length and, I think, for most gamers, a large chunk of the rules when unused. How many eighth level spells did you actually cast in 1e after all? Once you make those two decisions - that a campaign will last about X number of sessions, and within those sessions, the players should have the opportunity to experience the entire game - you get your rate of reward. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Game Fundamentals - The Illusion of Accomplishment
Top