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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jmucchiello" data-source="post: 5163857" data-attributes="member: 813">Around when 3e came out I looked back on 1e and decided that 7th and higher level spells in 1e were supposed to be descriptive, there only to fill out the world and what magic "is". There was no expectation that players would ever cast those spells. They were just there to finish the spell system. In fact, I hope Gygax created them for the fun of creating them. Some of those spells are more whimsical than other Flaming Chariot of Sustare, the Bigsby spells, etc. They paint a definite picture of what high level magery is about. For folks who say D&D is its own genre, this is one of the key elements of old style D&D.But player's casting them? Do you think anybody had cast even a handful of them in actual game play before the PHB was released in 78? I doubt it. The original systems always had charts with ellipses. That is where 3e dropped the ball. They assumed folks wanted to be able to play the whole game. But I think the game makes more sense when there is always more stuff beyond. At least 3e had the Epic Handbook, for better or for worse. What do you do when you hit 30th level in 4e? They removed the ellipses.But I think I've gone off topic....</blockquote>