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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5166141" data-attributes="member: 42582">Alternatively, maybe they think the game is boring when they don't get to engage the mechanics and prefer a game where even if their PC is losing, they as a player still get to do things in the game.Is wanting to play the game by engaging the mechanics to affect the fate of my PC egoistic? No one's explained to me why this is so. And I'll reiterate - games like HeroQuest are designed to bring about exactly this sort of result - all game all the time - and no one has ever suggested that they are games for egoists. Why is 4e different?What I'm seeing here is that some people prefer traditional to modern game designs - fair enough - but are then trying to explain their preferences by appealing to a contrast between mature and egoistic gamers. I just don't buy that.</blockquote>