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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5168117" data-attributes="member: 42582">You probably noticed that, in the post you're replying to, I suggested creativity/participation vs non-participation as helpful alternatives to the active/passive contrast. You want to use them as equivalents? Fine. I don't there's any confusion going on, but I do think we have a bit of a disagreement about the nature of aesthetic experience (ie I don't agree that it's passive - it's intellectual activity). But that's probably irrelevant to this thread.Some players of RPGs want to act/participate by engaging the mechanics to affect the gameworld situation via their PCs. When the game impedes, in a signficant way (eg duration or degree of "miss a turn" effects) their ability to do so, their enjoyment of the game is reduced.Other players are less conerned when this happens becase they are happy to act/participate in other ways eg by playing an NPC, by advising other players on strategy, etc. For these players, "miss a turn" mechanics don't reduce their enjoyment of the game so much, because although such mechanics affect their use of their PCs, they don't make them miss out on other sorts of turns ie the ones you can take without using your PC, such as the above-mentioned advising other players etc.Either sort of play can probably put up with a degree of absolute non-participation (spectating).I don't see any issue here of playing to win. I don't see any issue here of delayed gratification (ie there is nothing analogous to working all week so I can party on the weekend, or living in penury now so I can save up and by something nice in 10 years time).</blockquote>

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