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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5168937" data-attributes="member: 4937">Ugghh.  Fifteen minutes is a whole combat as far as I'm concerned.  What level are you playing at or system are you using that turns take 15 minutes?  When I was younger, everything was a simulation reason.  Greater and greater 'realism' was the holy grail of everything I was doing.  If it had some other positive effect, that was not only good but expected.  That it might have some negative effect hadn't yet occurred to me, and wouldn't until I switched systems in frustration and started trying to make them 'realistic'.Putting aside whether this is strictly true or not, it runs entirely counter to your claims about how previous editions played.  If it is true that combat was 'bingo', wash rinse repeat, it should also clearly follow that no one needed to spend a long time waiting for their number to be called.To the extent that the 'bingo' analogy is true about 1e, I find it true about 3e and largely for the same reasons would find it true about 4e.  You are looking for mechanics to reward something other than standing in one place and whacking away.  My belief is that this is a very poor understanding of what tactics mean.  I still believe that good encounter design trumps mechanics when it comes to encouraging tactics.  On the other hand, you make a good point about mental engaugement in the scene.That's been happening at my table since 1e, but that is a whole other story.I agree that that is true and that it could potentially create greater passive involvement in the scene because of the anticipation of an unexpected oppurtunity for active involvement.  On the other hand, I haven't exactly been complaining about 4e's event driven combat either and would consider that one of the aspects of 4e they 'got right' and which might be worth importing into my own rules.  Agreed in as much as it is a mechanical departure.  And in and of itself, that approach doesn't bother me.  Although I don't think it actually decreases the amount of time you wait between turns (on average) I do agree that it can have the positive benefit of maintaining passive participation in the scene.  In fact, this would be a good example of maintaining an ego gamers participation in the scene and excitement, without taking away or defining down the possibility of failure.   The sting of failure is still there, but its mitigated by the hope that something will happen soon to make up for it.</blockquote>

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