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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5170845" data-attributes="member: 42582">This is right. That's why I've been trying to find an adequate description of the sort of player to whom 4e and comparable games appeal - the phrase I've been using is "engaging the mechanics in order to influence the gameworld via the player's PC". What I've just tried to describe is what is missing from the sort of out-of-turn participation that you're describing, and that is characteristic of AD&D and similar systems. Players who are less like you, and who are looking for the sort of play I'm trying to describe, will therefore (and naturally) turn to a different sort of mechanical system.I think this reflects broader changes in the way RPGs are being played. Classic AD&D assumes large parties, multiple PCs and/or henchmen/hirelings per player, playing an NPC when your PC is disabled, etc. 4e is desgined for a player who wants a different experience from this - they want their PC, their PC's story and their PC's abilities as mechnically expressed to be at the centre of their playing of the game.Undoubtedly this is a different player looking for a different game. I still don't see the "ego-gamer", though.</blockquote>