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<blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4680664" data-attributes="member: 40961">You can say anything that you want.&nbsp; But if the DM is just pretending to be your adversary, then its not really an adversarial game.&nbsp; Meanwhile, if conflict adjudication boils down to asking the DM to rule your way and trying to convince him to agree, then you really are playing Mother-May-I.Eh, now you're just arguing labels.&nbsp;Mother May I, the actual children's game, works by asking permission to act.&nbsp; What I'm referring to and what everyone in this thread and in previous threads where other people have used the term &quot;Mother May I game&quot; have been referring to doesn't actually involve asking for permission to act.&nbsp; It involves asking for permission to succeed.&nbsp;I don't have a better label for this type of game.&nbsp; Come up with one and I'll use it.&nbsp; I don't really care.&nbsp;The basic point stands.&nbsp; Rules light situations frequently boil down to lobbying the DM for a particular outcome.&nbsp; Just as a rules heavy game involves metagaming about what outcomes the rules promote a rules light game involves metagaming about what you can or cannot talk the DM into deciding.&nbsp;The former isn't bad if reasoning in-game and reasoning metagame produce similar outcomes, ie, if the rules are reasonably plausible and internally consistent.&nbsp; The latter isn't bad either if the DM is good at deciding things that make everyone at the table happy.&nbsp; But good or bad, the metagaming happens either way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cadfan, post: 4680664, member: 40961"] You can [I]say[/I] anything that you want. But if the DM is just pretending to be your adversary, then its not really an adversarial game. Meanwhile, if conflict adjudication boils down to asking the DM to rule your way and trying to convince him to agree, then you really are playing Mother-May-I. Eh, now you're just arguing labels. Mother May I, the actual children's game, works by asking permission to act. What I'm referring to and what everyone in this thread and in previous threads where other people have used the term "Mother May I game" have been referring to doesn't actually involve asking for permission to act. It involves asking for permission to succeed. I don't have a better label for this type of game. Come up with one and I'll use it. I don't really care. The basic point stands. Rules light situations frequently boil down to lobbying the DM for a particular outcome. Just as a rules heavy game involves metagaming about what outcomes the rules promote a rules light game involves metagaming about what you can or cannot talk the DM into deciding. The former isn't bad if reasoning in-game and reasoning metagame produce similar outcomes, ie, if the rules are reasonably plausible and internally consistent. The latter isn't bad either if the DM is good at deciding things that make everyone at the table happy. But good or bad, the metagaming happens either way. [/QUOTE]

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