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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7743835" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I was think ing much the same thing.</p><p></p><p>What counts as sufficient statement of the method is always an open question. For example, if the goal is "kill the orc" is it a sufficient statement of method to say "I enter melee with my sword?" Or does the player need to specify some particular swordfighting technique?</p><p></p><p>The similar issue arises with traps.</p><p></p><p>In the swordfighting case, if the player fails the check (so that the PC misses, gets skewered by the orc, etc) is the GM allowed to narrate "As you try to parry, you suddenly realise the orc has deftly feinted past your defence"? And, if so, is the player allowed to respond with a more intricate description of his/her PC's fighting style which explains how s/he would never fall for that feint?</p><p></p><p>In the trapfinding case, if the check is failed is the GM allowed to narrate "As you feel for tripwires, you accidently trigger a pressure plate?" If not, how is the GM meant to narrate failure? And is a player of a trapfinder meant to be able to narrate detailed trap-finding techniques? Does this feed back into swordfighting? (And what about magical skills, where <em>no one</em> can know what the relevant techniques might be?)</p><p></p><p>I have used the Burning Wheel approach for a long time (in Rolemaster, 4e, BW, Classic Traveller, Cortex+ Heroic). But I still find it needs some sort of give-and-take between player and GM in the narration of failure, which very often (obviously not always) may involve the PC doing something that the player would prefer the PC had not done.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7743835, member: 42582"] I was think ing much the same thing. What counts as sufficient statement of the method is always an open question. For example, if the goal is "kill the orc" is it a sufficient statement of method to say "I enter melee with my sword?" Or does the player need to specify some particular swordfighting technique? The similar issue arises with traps. In the swordfighting case, if the player fails the check (so that the PC misses, gets skewered by the orc, etc) is the GM allowed to narrate "As you try to parry, you suddenly realise the orc has deftly feinted past your defence"? And, if so, is the player allowed to respond with a more intricate description of his/her PC's fighting style which explains how s/he would never fall for that feint? In the trapfinding case, if the check is failed is the GM allowed to narrate "As you feel for tripwires, you accidently trigger a pressure plate?" If not, how is the GM meant to narrate failure? And is a player of a trapfinder meant to be able to narrate detailed trap-finding techniques? Does this feed back into swordfighting? (And what about magical skills, where [I]no one[/I] can know what the relevant techniques might be?) I have used the Burning Wheel approach for a long time (in Rolemaster, 4e, BW, Classic Traveller, Cortex+ Heroic). But I still find it needs some sort of give-and-take between player and GM in the narration of failure, which very often (obviously not always) may involve the PC doing something that the player would prefer the PC had not done. [/QUOTE]
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