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<blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7744554" data-attributes="member: 6919838"><p>"Nothing really changes?"</p><p></p><p>Huh?</p><p></p><p>If the PCs accept, they take on an obligation, a secondary mission. Success or failure is now success or failure of their own outting but of that other job, their other employer. </p><p></p><p>Thats the obvious part.</p><p></p><p>Add to that, accept and get help with access to crew for the missions, dont and have more time loss and crew more determined by their somewhat more limited searches.</p><p></p><p>Add to that, easier better sell of goods afterward, better advancing relationship with authorities, good PR from the follow-up as notifications and funerals, etc etc etc and even not having the second recovery mission sent out while they salvage which would have led to... Complications.</p><p></p><p>See, to me, and to my players, that decision was a big one, one they saw as very important and that would impact the mission they were planning in the before, during and after in very pragmatic measurable ways (ignoring completely the personal angles.)</p><p></p><p>No one thought there were "absolutely no stakes here at all" or that the choices they made would not have impact.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes it seems some RPGers invested in the philosophy of rpg mechanics and "setting stakes" see things on a very selective scale, not necessarily seeing it as "immediate loss" = "stakes" but not too far off from it and also sometimes seeing it as "declared stakes" sometimes describes as the players agree abc is at stake before they roll... </p><p></p><p>But in my experiences over the years with gamers not as invested in the philosophy of rpg mechanics, decision point like i referred to are seen as big decisions with likely significant consequences...and whether or not the characters accept or decline, are convinced or not, or if the players have choices or not are actually major stakes.</p><p></p><p>But rounding the corner backto the OP... What were the stakes for the duke "save my daughter" as far as pcs concerned, in an objective sense?</p><p></p><p>Duke wants his daughter saved, will not be happy. Is that of any value for the pcs? Do they care? Wont he send others if they say no, just like my official might have? </p><p></p><p>Why would "duke's daughter" objective be valid stakes for rolling to convince pcs to go but "bring out our dead" not be - especially in a setting where say ressurections may be possible?</p><p></p><p>Hint: Some of the dead brought back will wind up ressurected... without that having been expressly "staked out" for the heroes so, actually, more than one "life or death" is at stake in my example.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="5ekyu, post: 7744554, member: 6919838"] "Nothing really changes?" Huh? If the PCs accept, they take on an obligation, a secondary mission. Success or failure is now success or failure of their own outting but of that other job, their other employer. Thats the obvious part. Add to that, accept and get help with access to crew for the missions, dont and have more time loss and crew more determined by their somewhat more limited searches. Add to that, easier better sell of goods afterward, better advancing relationship with authorities, good PR from the follow-up as notifications and funerals, etc etc etc and even not having the second recovery mission sent out while they salvage which would have led to... Complications. See, to me, and to my players, that decision was a big one, one they saw as very important and that would impact the mission they were planning in the before, during and after in very pragmatic measurable ways (ignoring completely the personal angles.) No one thought there were "absolutely no stakes here at all" or that the choices they made would not have impact. Sometimes it seems some RPGers invested in the philosophy of rpg mechanics and "setting stakes" see things on a very selective scale, not necessarily seeing it as "immediate loss" = "stakes" but not too far off from it and also sometimes seeing it as "declared stakes" sometimes describes as the players agree abc is at stake before they roll... But in my experiences over the years with gamers not as invested in the philosophy of rpg mechanics, decision point like i referred to are seen as big decisions with likely significant consequences...and whether or not the characters accept or decline, are convinced or not, or if the players have choices or not are actually major stakes. But rounding the corner backto the OP... What were the stakes for the duke "save my daughter" as far as pcs concerned, in an objective sense? Duke wants his daughter saved, will not be happy. Is that of any value for the pcs? Do they care? Wont he send others if they say no, just like my official might have? Why would "duke's daughter" objective be valid stakes for rolling to convince pcs to go but "bring out our dead" not be - especially in a setting where say ressurections may be possible? Hint: Some of the dead brought back will wind up ressurected... without that having been expressly "staked out" for the heroes so, actually, more than one "life or death" is at stake in my example. [/QUOTE]
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