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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 9715570" data-attributes="member: 6877472"><p>It's perfectly fine to have preferences. In another thread about the level band of most adventures, someone (sorry I can't recall who at the moment) defined several categories of D&D gamers. One subset vastly prefers the levels 1-3 play loop, with low hit points, easy death, characters having to be super cautious, and things like falls, thirst, starvation, and getting lost can mean the difference between life and death. And that the people who like that sort of play will impose all sorts of rules on the game to preserve that game loop- slowed leveling, caps on hit points, easier death, eliminating spells and magic items that threaten to obsolete environmental challenges.</p><p></p><p>Other groups prefer the levels 4-9 band, and will often start at level 3 to get right to the game with characters who feel somewhat experienced, and can quickly tangle with the wide variety of things the game offers, ogres, trolls, rust monsters, gelatinous cubes, cool spells and magic items, with the game centered around one main goal or arc, probably terminating with a battle with some iconic threat, maybe even a dragon.</p><p></p><p>Others like the higher level play, say 10-16, before the game is completely busted with the pinnacle of power, 9th level spells. You get the idea.</p><p></p><p>All of these game loops are possible in D&D, as wonky as it sounds, because the game's lore supports them all, without setting a preference. So somehow, the same game world features people fighting demigods and shaking the heavens as first time adventurers slowly creeping into a goblin cave. At least in theory.</p><p></p><p>In practice, the lore and the mechanics don't really line up at all. In the Forgotten Realms, many super high level NPC's have lived for centuries, and limit their activities in some kind of magical cold war, afraid of the mutually assured destruction that would be unleashed should they clash with their full might, preferring to engage in proxy battles with champions, both high and low level. But at the same time, the game is lousy with higher level NPC's, to the point that it sometimes feels like you can't throw a rock without hitting an Archmage.</p><p></p><p>The game's mechanics, however, are geared to rapid advancement, players being able to win against "unbeatable odds", low accumulation of magic items (at least, that one can use in a given moment), and, if the description of the game's tiers are to believed, the characters quickly becoming important movers and shakers in the world- and beyond. By the rules, a full archmage able to wield 9th level spells is only a CR 12, something that could be conceivably defeated by tier 2 or 3 characters. If one used the encounter building systems the game encourages, you could go from level 1 to someone who should be rightfully challenging Demon Princes in about 60 sessions. Even were we to assume 1 week of downtime between sessions, and most sessions taking 1-3 days, that's happening in under 2 years!</p><p></p><p>Think about that. Joe Buck Private can go off adventuring, with the odds of success in his favor, and become a legendary warlord in less than 2 years! Who would want to be a farmer or a town guard?</p><p></p><p>You could argue "well, the PC's are special, chosen ones, main characters", and that would be fine- but the game doesn't make that explicit, and there's a cadre of loud DM's who would deny any such notion. And yet, here we are.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 9715570, member: 6877472"] It's perfectly fine to have preferences. In another thread about the level band of most adventures, someone (sorry I can't recall who at the moment) defined several categories of D&D gamers. One subset vastly prefers the levels 1-3 play loop, with low hit points, easy death, characters having to be super cautious, and things like falls, thirst, starvation, and getting lost can mean the difference between life and death. And that the people who like that sort of play will impose all sorts of rules on the game to preserve that game loop- slowed leveling, caps on hit points, easier death, eliminating spells and magic items that threaten to obsolete environmental challenges. Other groups prefer the levels 4-9 band, and will often start at level 3 to get right to the game with characters who feel somewhat experienced, and can quickly tangle with the wide variety of things the game offers, ogres, trolls, rust monsters, gelatinous cubes, cool spells and magic items, with the game centered around one main goal or arc, probably terminating with a battle with some iconic threat, maybe even a dragon. Others like the higher level play, say 10-16, before the game is completely busted with the pinnacle of power, 9th level spells. You get the idea. All of these game loops are possible in D&D, as wonky as it sounds, because the game's lore supports them all, without setting a preference. So somehow, the same game world features people fighting demigods and shaking the heavens as first time adventurers slowly creeping into a goblin cave. At least in theory. In practice, the lore and the mechanics don't really line up at all. In the Forgotten Realms, many super high level NPC's have lived for centuries, and limit their activities in some kind of magical cold war, afraid of the mutually assured destruction that would be unleashed should they clash with their full might, preferring to engage in proxy battles with champions, both high and low level. But at the same time, the game is lousy with higher level NPC's, to the point that it sometimes feels like you can't throw a rock without hitting an Archmage. The game's mechanics, however, are geared to rapid advancement, players being able to win against "unbeatable odds", low accumulation of magic items (at least, that one can use in a given moment), and, if the description of the game's tiers are to believed, the characters quickly becoming important movers and shakers in the world- and beyond. By the rules, a full archmage able to wield 9th level spells is only a CR 12, something that could be conceivably defeated by tier 2 or 3 characters. If one used the encounter building systems the game encourages, you could go from level 1 to someone who should be rightfully challenging Demon Princes in about 60 sessions. Even were we to assume 1 week of downtime between sessions, and most sessions taking 1-3 days, that's happening in under 2 years! Think about that. Joe Buck Private can go off adventuring, with the odds of success in his favor, and become a legendary warlord in less than 2 years! Who would want to be a farmer or a town guard? You could argue "well, the PC's are special, chosen ones, main characters", and that would be fine- but the game doesn't make that explicit, and there's a cadre of loud DM's who would deny any such notion. And yet, here we are. [/QUOTE]
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