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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MostlyDm" data-source="post: 6700681" data-attributes="member: 6788973">I think you're right, except... Classes don't need to be representative of the masses. The average knight in ASoIaF isn't even a *fighter*, really. He's  just a generic d8 HD NPC with some basic armor and weapon proficiencies. The question is whether or not this class could be useful to model some of the "PC" Knights. Brienne, Barristan, Arthur Dayne, etc.  And while I still basically agree that it's not strictly *necessary* to do that, I think it could be interesting and useful for that purpose. There's a difference between Brienne and Sandor. That difference doesn't have to be expressed mechanically... It could be purely role playing and background. But I think you *can* express that difference mechanically, if that floats your boat. Plus, if you're removing spell casting classes you've reduced the class options to Fighter and Rogue with 2 available archetypes each. So for mechanical variance between players, if that matters to you, you basically need to think up a couple new classes. Spell-less ranger and paladin seem like obvious first steps. They'll be more similar than the base classes in the PHB. They'll look a lot like modified fighters and rogues, even. That's okay! Desired, even.  That's the setting. So yeah. Keep at it. I don't have any bright ideas for conviction-as-interaction/exploration. The lazy man's solution would be de-magickify some paladin spells that touch on those pillars and give 'em as class abilities.</blockquote>

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