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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4033185" data-attributes="member: 2067">I dunno, I don't think it's too much to ask that all the players (including the DM) follow the rules of the game. And I think those specific examples above would shatter my suspension of disbelief about my character and the game world, and make me feel like I was just along for the DM's ride.That's what happens when the DM violates the trust of the players: it no longer feels like a collaborative game, and it instead feels like the DM's story that the players are just along for the ride for. People will have different breaking points for that. Mine comes at about the point that the DM is killing high-level knights with accidental falls from horses. It jerks me out of heroic fantasy very roughly, and I become very suspicious of such blatant manipulation of the world.In an ideal situation, sure. But DMs are not infalliable, and a DM who would pull almost any of the tricks mentioned in the OP would be ruining my fun right quick, and obviously not taking into consideration the fact that some people's fun comes from playing a game, not watching the DM describe events that are out of my control, as a player.The examples in the OP don't make the game any more fun for me, though. So if you were to do those, you'd be failling your job as a DM, because it wouldn't be fun for me.The rules are the shared common ground of the game. If you're not going to use them, I'm not sure I should, either, as a player. Perhaps I should just choose the outcome that I think is the most adventurous. There are many systems that agree with this sentiment. D&amp;D is not one of them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 4033185, member: 2067"] I dunno, I don't think it's too much to ask that all the players (including the DM) follow the rules of the game. And I think those specific examples above would shatter my suspension of disbelief about my character and the game world, and make me feel like I was just along for the DM's ride. That's what happens when the DM violates the trust of the players: it no longer feels like a collaborative game, and it instead feels like the DM's story that the players are just along for the ride for. People will have different breaking points for that. Mine comes at about the point that the DM is killing high-level knights with accidental falls from horses. It jerks me out of heroic fantasy very roughly, and I become very suspicious of such blatant manipulation of the world. In an ideal situation, sure. But DMs are not infalliable, and a DM who would pull almost any of the tricks mentioned in the OP would be ruining my fun right quick, and obviously not taking into consideration the fact that some people's fun comes from playing a game, not watching the DM describe events that are out of my control, as a player. The examples in the OP don't make the game any more fun for me, though. So if you were to do those, you'd be failling your job as a DM, because it wouldn't be fun for me. The rules are the shared common ground of the game. If you're not going to use them, I'm not sure I should, either, as a player. Perhaps I should just choose the outcome that I think is the most adventurous. There are many systems that agree with this sentiment. D&D is not one of them. [/QUOTE]

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