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Game rules are not the physics of the game world
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4033347" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Actually, the DMG includes rules for building new monster abilities. And for adjudicating things that the rules cannot cover. So, you know, rules for when the rules fail. And there's the ever-popular Rule 0 as well. All of these have a good reason for existing, and I'd expect a DM to adhere to them, too. </p><p></p><p>Note that the DMG doesn't really include rules for arbitrarily killing a high-level knight for falling off of a horse. That's because there are many people who would have their games fairly well ruined by such an experience.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure, sounds like fun. It's a good thing the DMG gives guidelines for setting DC's and making monsters and covering situations that aren't covered by the rules. Pretty good ones, IIRC. It's great when a DM plays by the rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't see how you're breaking/bending/modifying/igoring the rules with crazy schemes and new monsters, though. The rules pretty much expressly state that there are circumstances they won't cover, and they give the DM ways to handle it. That's entirely within the rules.</p><p></p><p>Furthermore, I'm merely mentioning that when a DM takes a heavy-handed tactic like many of the OP's examples, without accounting for it in the rules, just to achieve some expidited narrative end, I get the feeling that this whole game is just an excuse for the DM to achieve his own expidited narrative end, and get the distinct feeling that my participation has no effect. Which is largely true, since the rules are the mechanism by which my character has an effect on the game world. If the DM doesn't use the rules, I can't affect the process, and my character is impotent.</p><p></p><p>It's not an accuastion of being railroady. It's an accusation of making the player impotent. Which is actually a much deeper, more pointed criticism. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If the game just becomes round after round of the DM just saying "Yes" or "No" to my PC requests, it's not a game I particularly am interested in playing. Similarly, if the game just becomes the DM doing whatever they want without my character being able to affect it, it's very dull to me. In both instances, I feel like my character has no effect on the world other than that which the DM allows it to have. Which, again, is a feeling of impotence.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Depends. If the knight was some NPC classed 1st level aristocrat nobody or something, maybe, sure, because falling of a horse does deal damage, and nobody 1st level NPC's aren't particularly known for their reslience. This doesn't break much suspension of disbelief. He was just "some knight," breakig his neck isn't a big deal. The rules allow for such a thing to happen.</p><p></p><p>But if that knight was the 20th level epic hero of the realm who slew the great red wyrm Galhadrarix and consorts with the gods nightly on Mount Maia, simply falling off an old nag in the country doesn't make sense. The rules don't really permit such a thing to happen. And because it sets off those flags, it has one of two possibilities: either there's more going on (warlock curses and the like), or the DM is beating my sense of believability with a mallet.</p><p></p><p>One of these is okay. The other is not.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And the rules allow for it to happen, in a few different ways. And if the DM created rules that allowed for it to happen in broader contexts, I think that would be a great contribution to the game.</p><p></p><p>But if the DM just 'made it happen,' without an in-game explanation, I'd feel robbed and impotent as a player. "Oh. Well, I make it happen where I kill him. Game over!"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Permenant magical enchantments are part of the rules, as are rules that allow you to be better at a specific weapon. If the DM uses those, I'm fine. If he doesn't, my sense of believability is bludgeoned. Oh, so your pet NPC can get something that no one else can? How <em>wonderful for him</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Meaning what?</p><p></p><p>Specifically?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hey, as long as we all share in the ability to violate the rules enough to basically dictate our actions, I guess it's fair. If you can arbitrarily decide some knight breaks his neck, and I can arbitrarily decide some good dragon gives me his horde as a birthday present because he really doesn't need it anymore, I suppose we're even. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 4033347, member: 2067"] Actually, the DMG includes rules for building new monster abilities. And for adjudicating things that the rules cannot cover. So, you know, rules for when the rules fail. And there's the ever-popular Rule 0 as well. All of these have a good reason for existing, and I'd expect a DM to adhere to them, too. Note that the DMG doesn't really include rules for arbitrarily killing a high-level knight for falling off of a horse. That's because there are many people who would have their games fairly well ruined by such an experience. Sure, sounds like fun. It's a good thing the DMG gives guidelines for setting DC's and making monsters and covering situations that aren't covered by the rules. Pretty good ones, IIRC. It's great when a DM plays by the rules. I don't see how you're breaking/bending/modifying/igoring the rules with crazy schemes and new monsters, though. The rules pretty much expressly state that there are circumstances they won't cover, and they give the DM ways to handle it. That's entirely within the rules. Furthermore, I'm merely mentioning that when a DM takes a heavy-handed tactic like many of the OP's examples, without accounting for it in the rules, just to achieve some expidited narrative end, I get the feeling that this whole game is just an excuse for the DM to achieve his own expidited narrative end, and get the distinct feeling that my participation has no effect. Which is largely true, since the rules are the mechanism by which my character has an effect on the game world. If the DM doesn't use the rules, I can't affect the process, and my character is impotent. It's not an accuastion of being railroady. It's an accusation of making the player impotent. Which is actually a much deeper, more pointed criticism. If the game just becomes round after round of the DM just saying "Yes" or "No" to my PC requests, it's not a game I particularly am interested in playing. Similarly, if the game just becomes the DM doing whatever they want without my character being able to affect it, it's very dull to me. In both instances, I feel like my character has no effect on the world other than that which the DM allows it to have. Which, again, is a feeling of impotence. Depends. If the knight was some NPC classed 1st level aristocrat nobody or something, maybe, sure, because falling of a horse does deal damage, and nobody 1st level NPC's aren't particularly known for their reslience. This doesn't break much suspension of disbelief. He was just "some knight," breakig his neck isn't a big deal. The rules allow for such a thing to happen. But if that knight was the 20th level epic hero of the realm who slew the great red wyrm Galhadrarix and consorts with the gods nightly on Mount Maia, simply falling off an old nag in the country doesn't make sense. The rules don't really permit such a thing to happen. And because it sets off those flags, it has one of two possibilities: either there's more going on (warlock curses and the like), or the DM is beating my sense of believability with a mallet. One of these is okay. The other is not. And the rules allow for it to happen, in a few different ways. And if the DM created rules that allowed for it to happen in broader contexts, I think that would be a great contribution to the game. But if the DM just 'made it happen,' without an in-game explanation, I'd feel robbed and impotent as a player. "Oh. Well, I make it happen where I kill him. Game over!" Permenant magical enchantments are part of the rules, as are rules that allow you to be better at a specific weapon. If the DM uses those, I'm fine. If he doesn't, my sense of believability is bludgeoned. Oh, so your pet NPC can get something that no one else can? How [I]wonderful for him[/I]. Meaning what? Specifically? Hey, as long as we all share in the ability to violate the rules enough to basically dictate our actions, I guess it's fair. If you can arbitrarily decide some knight breaks his neck, and I can arbitrarily decide some good dragon gives me his horde as a birthday present because he really doesn't need it anymore, I suppose we're even. :D [/QUOTE]
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