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<blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 4035098" data-attributes="member: 32164">I knew someone was gonna throw out the &quot;metagaming&quot; accusation eventually. Quite honestly, I think it's one that can be leveled equally at both sides.If you make decisions on the basis that you're playing a game, it's metagaming. To me, thinking you know the relative &quot;hit points&quot; of a particular character is metagaming. Why? Because the PC has no way to truly know what level Sir Hacksalot is. He killed a dragon? Maybe he was lucky. There's nothing, by the rules, that prevents a 1st-level warrior from killing a dragon, especially if he has a bunch of magic gear. It's just really unlikely that A) he'd have that gear, and B) that he would survive the fight if you played it out. But, by the rules, it could happen. A 1st-level warrior could get very lucky (roll all 20s), the dragon could always miss, and so on. So when the PCs decide they know someone's level based on things like this, they're metagaming.&nbsp;But that's the PCs. What you're telling me is that nobody in Superman's world gets to die the way normal people die. Jimmy Olsen can't fall down the stairs and break his neck. Clark Kent's dad can't die of a heart attack.Oh wait, maybe you'll say they're low-level NPCs, so that's possible. On the other hand, is Bruce Wayne (aka &quot;the Batman&quot; - a not low-level NPC) incapable of dying from a broken neck? What if he lives to be 60? 80? 90? When is he no longer protected by the plot protection of being &quot;the Batman?&quot;That's how I see hit points. They're plot protection for the main character. They're a useful abstraction to deal with the fact that any normal person facing the situations the PCs do should, by all rights, be dead a hundred times over. The PCs aren't, because they have plot protection in the form of hit points. They don't have plot immunity like so many fictional characters do because if they can't &quot;lose,&quot; then there's no &quot;game.&quot;I'm about to give up. If people don't understand this point by now, discussing it further seems like an utter waste of time.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JohnSnow, post: 4035098, member: 32164"] I knew someone was gonna throw out the "metagaming" accusation eventually. Quite honestly, I think it's one that can be leveled equally at both sides. If you make decisions on the basis that you're playing a game, it's metagaming. To me, thinking you know the relative "hit points" of a particular character is metagaming. Why? Because the PC has no way to truly know what level Sir Hacksalot is. He killed a dragon? Maybe he was [i]lucky[/i]. There's nothing, by the rules, that prevents a 1st-level warrior from killing a dragon, especially if he has a bunch of magic gear. It's just really unlikely that A) he'd have that gear, and B) that he would survive the fight [i]if you played it out.[/i] But, by the rules, it [b]could happen.[/b] A 1st-level warrior could get very lucky (roll all 20s), the dragon could always miss, and so on. So when the PCs decide they know someone's level based on things like this, they're metagaming. But that's the PCs. What you're telling me is that nobody in Superman's world gets to die the way normal people die. Jimmy Olsen can't fall down the stairs and break his neck. Clark Kent's dad can't die of a heart attack. Oh wait, maybe you'll say they're low-level NPCs, so that's possible. On the other hand, is Bruce Wayne (aka "the Batman" - a not low-level NPC) incapable of dying from a broken neck? What if he lives to be 60? 80? 90? When is he no longer protected by the plot protection of being "the Batman?" That's how I see hit points. They're plot protection for the main character. They're a useful abstraction to deal with the fact that any normal person facing the situations the PCs do should, by all rights, be dead a hundred times over. The PCs aren't, because they have plot protection in the form of hit points. They don't have plot immunity like so many fictional characters do because if they can't "lose," then there's no "game." I'm about to give up. If people don't understand this point by now, discussing it further seems like an utter waste of time. [/QUOTE]

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