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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4038079" data-attributes="member: 2067">This is immensely off-base from every position presented in this thread so far.#1: We have rules for falling off of horses. They are more than able to kill 90% of the world.#2: You really don't understand what I actually want out of a ruleset, and your hyperbole does nothing to bring me any closer to understanding what you want.#3: "Realism" is exactly what I'm AVOIDING with these rules. And some of us think that if stabbing someone in the gut is resolved in one case by an attack roll, and in another case with another mechanic that can lead to completely different results, that this is inconsistent enough to destroy the enjoyment of the game.Like if someone who I played Scrabble with could spell words without using vowels, but everyone else had to use vowels.The rules declare that 20th level fighters have X hit points. This is true for PC's and NPC's. The rules never mention a time when this isn't true, so it's reasonable and in accordance with existing rules to assume that it *is* true, that this is a consistent feature of the game world. The rules also tell you how much damage you take falling from a horse. The rules never mention a time when this isn't true, so this, too, is a consistent feature of the game world. Thus, if a 20th level fighter died falling off a horse, either the picture is incomplete (there is some other rule which suspends hp for this instance), or the DM is just making stuff up.Heck, I'll even cite chapter and verse:"Normally, NPC's should obey all the same rules as PC's" (DMG pg. 16)"NPCs should live and die -- and fail and succeed -- by the dice, just as PC's do" (DMG pg 16)"You might not think it's right or even fun unless you obey the same rules the players do...if there's a default method of DMing, that's it" (DMG pg. 18)"NPCs gain experience points the same way PCs do" (DMG pg. 107)"The NPC classes showcase the difference between PCs and the rest of the world" (DMG pg. 131)Furthermore, bits on NPC traits, on building an immersive setting, and the entire section on generating towns, suggest, no, the rules don't go away when the PC's aren't on the scene.Now I don't really object to anyone who doesn't share that particular playstyle, but you're not really going to be able to convince me that I'm not running the game in at least one of the ways it was meant to be run, or that it would be somehow better for me to run it in a different way.But that is a godawful mouthful. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I was describing my subjective feelings on the matter. I have tried to make it clear that the perjorative terms are exactly what I feel, and not a condemnation of the gamestyle from any sort of objective point, but from my, personal, relative, POV. It's perfectly fair of me to say that, for me, "quaranting the action resolution and character build mechanics to situations that involve the PC, for the sake of gaming pleasure" feels exactly like "cheating."I've also tried to use more neutral language, but I don't quite have the linguistic agility required to come up with  "quaranting the action resolution and character build mechanics to situations that involve the PC, for the sake of gaming pleasure". <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />And I've said that's fine, but not for me. The aggressive language was meant to specifically respond to accusations, from more than one angle, that I was somehow wrong for saying that I wouldn't enjoy it because it feels lazy and creatively lacking and like cheating to me. I am allowed to feel that way. I defended why I feel that way. I still feel that way, all the while recognizing that the way I feel isn't going to be universal for everyone.I never told anyone they have to accept that  "quaranting the action resolution and character build mechanics to situations that involve the PC, for the sake of gaming pleasure" IS lazy or creatively dull, just to accept that it feels like it to me.It's not 'rules bloat' if the rules serve a purpose.I'd go for a game with it, I'd go for a game without it. Different styles of game, different types of games, different SETTINGS for different games, are going to need different rules. As long as everyone consistently abides by whatever those rules happen to be, I'm a pretty happy camper. If people tell me to make up most of the rules, or if one player can "quarantine the action resolution and character build mechanics to situations that involve the PC, for the sake of gaming pleasure," I'm not.</blockquote>

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