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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4040816" data-attributes="member: 4937">We need to carefully say what we mean by 'exist'.  In the real world, when we say that something exists, we mean that it has the power to actually have a tangible impact on the universe.  Normally, when we say that something really exists, exactly what we mean is that it has a mechanical impact on the universe.  If it doesn't, then we say that the thing either doesn't exist or is sufficiently abstract that it may exist, but that we can't quantify it.  We might say that 'love' exists, but it doesn't exist in the same way 'a brick' does.You just defined a term 'color' to refer to things that exist in the game but have no actual mechanical effect.  These things actually exist outside of the rules, and hense the physics of the game.  If they existed in the rules, then they would have a mechanical effect.  If they were part of the physics of the game, then they would have a mechanical effect.  This is because the rules of the game and its physics are inseparable (as I've described).  Lets say that 'color' exists.  Well, we can certainly say that 'color' is not part of the physics of the game.  But we can't say that because 'color' exists, the game rules are not the physics of the game world.  And I further assert that since this thing called 'color' isn't part of the physics of the game world, its existance is of a different sort than those things which are defined by the physics of the game world.I would define the role of color by analogy.  In a program, you have several different types of statements.  You will have actual statements in the programming language, things like 'if (<this>) then <do this>'.   These are like rules.  Then you will have comments, like 'This is a search reutine'.  Both sorts of statements 'exist', but the existance of the two things is of different sorts.  In particular, when it comes time for the compiler to figure out what you intend the computer to do, all the comments are removed from the code and have no effect on the actual resolution.  In point in of fact, in the actual real and tangible program, the comments don't exist.  They exist merely to help someone understand what the rules are for.  'Color' is like the comments.  It helps clarify what the rules are accomplishing, but when it actually comes down to it 'color' doesn't exist in the same tangible way that rules do.  It's a non-physical existance.This is what I keep talking about when I say that if something isn't a rule, for practical purposes it doesn't really exist.  Once the 'color' becomes tangible, 'this thing is solid therefore you can't just walk through it without magical assistance' then that ruling about the color takes on the same attributes of any other rule because it has a mechanical effect.  It becomes established precedent 'this object has the attribute solid, objects like it can expected to be solid, and objects with the attribute solid can't be passed through without some defined exception'.</blockquote>

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