Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 7424889" data-attributes="member: 6716779">This thread is about the 5E systems CR and expected 6-8 encounters per day. On the various 5E forums people seem to be mentioning about how weak 5E monsters are. I think this is mostly due to experiences of 3E and 4E combined with rules such as feats being used. Even without feats being used I think the rules a re a bit on the easy side. This is good for new players might nit be great for experienced players and power gamers. Several feats I think also break the game the worst offenders are.Great Weapon MasterSharpshooterHealerWarcasterResilient (constitution). Combined with variant human as well. These feats make the game very easy IMHO. For example healer feat level 1 compare that to the amount of healing a life cleric can do and the life cleric is one of the best healers in the game especially when multiclassed. The new healing spirit spell also buffed Druidic healing up a lot and made the Land Druid/Life cleric MC even more stupid. The other feats the -5/+10 are to good relative to the other damage dealing feats and combine with multiple attacks and buffs a bit to well while warcaster and resilient con makes concentration saves a bit to easy to make especially when combined or something like a Sorcerer takes warcaster.  Other people mention on the forums level 18 casters are going down to mid level parties. Note the level 18 NPCs are only CR 12 which means you might be coming across them RAW around level 6 or 7. In HotDQ you can come across a CR 13 Dragon or Vampire at level 7 which is just slightly over a deadly encounter RAW. Our groups record for a deadly encounter IIRC was X5 over the deadly limit. I think some people are still in the 3E/4E mode of CR +/- 4 levels, well CR means something different in 5E. In AD&D adventures you could come across level 18+ casters at level 8-10 and I have seen one take a dive at level 5. NPC spellcasters then and now often do not have optimised spell lists, ACs or proficiency in con saves in 5E.  As to the 6-8 encounters thing the RAW guidelines for the encounters default to really easy for most encounters that are not cherry picked by the DM using some of the more interesting critters or critters that uses saves over attacks. The CR 2-3 spellcasters in PotA and things like flameskulls and hell hounds hurt a lot more than things like Knights and Veterans. Due to 5E abundance of hit points once you get past the early levels the CR system/encounter guidelines more or less break down IMHO although this might be due to things like feats and/or rolled ability scores.  We roll our ability scores because its fun and we like playing non obvious combos. Other groups seem to pull the reroll until you get what you want thing (barbarians with 20 strength and 19 con level 1 is excessive even in our groups). If I roll well for example I am more likely to play a Dwarf Sorcerer with 16 charisma level 1 I am already ahead of the curve I do not need to marry up a 20 strength level 1 barbarian to GWM. The more things you pile onto the game (rolled high stats, feats, multiclassing, variant humans etc) the more the CR system breaks down IMHO. If you like those things that is fine just be aware of the consequences and those rules are optional for a reason. Customising magic items to the players is also asking for trouble and magic great weapons, polearms, bows and hand crossbows are the main offenders. PCs looking to use these should probably look at the magic weapon spell and things like the warlock pact weapon ability. This is why we have gone back to the AD&D play with what you find system, it keeps the min/maxing in check. Catering to power gamers via the magic weapons they want that pick those feats just compounds the problem. This was one of th 1st things we figured out back in 2014. Minmaxing the party or group dynamics is better than a munchkin. I know a few people here probably think I am one of the worst min/maxers on the board but a lot of that is actually theory crafting or based on what a couple of my players get up to and a lot of the combos were spotted back in 2014 anyway in the 1st 2-3 months after the PHB came out. Realistically I get to play the cleric or other healer more often than not. This is also why I like some of the clones and AD&D and B/X. I find it easy to find a tempo that works as 5E can be a hot mess in regards to things like daily healing due to short rest abilities and the class mixtures+ healer feat. Clones and older D&D are usually along the lines of 1-3 hp/day plus whatever spells the cleric has and anything above that (potions, staff of healing etc) is a bonus or for use in emergencies.  Some of those games are a hot mess mechanically (1E looking at you) but they have some good adventures and are easier to get the pacing right than 5E despite any other flaws they have (and they have a few).  TLDR version. Optional rules and excessive powergaming break 5E and the encounter rules are aimed at speed of play and the lower powered game.</blockquote>

Verification