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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4003984" data-attributes="member: 22779">Before I do, let's define a couple of things.&nbsp; High magic, to me, means magic that is easily available and powerful.&nbsp; While Eberron has easily available magic, it's not all that powerful.&nbsp; Essentially, it's higher magic than say, Greyhawk, but, OTOH, Greyhawk has all sorts of extremely powerful magic.Which is a higher magic setting?&nbsp; I'm not sure.&nbsp; 3e in core, defaults to more the Eberron style at low level and the Greyhawk style at high level.&nbsp; By the Wealth by Level guidelines, a 7th level PC has 19k worth of equipment.&nbsp; That's actually not a whole lot.&nbsp; +1 weapon, +1 armor (or equivalent), +2 stat boost item and some odds and sods.&nbsp; The difference between a fully loaded 7th level PC and a 7th level PC with no magic is probably less than the difference between a 7th and 8th level PC.So, 3e at single digit levels defaults to a specific level of magic - widespread, not very powerful magic.&nbsp; Things change around 10th level or so.&nbsp; The difference between a magic carrying PC and a non-magic carrying PC becomes more and more marked.&nbsp; By about 14th level, it's easily one level difference, if not two.&nbsp; At very high levels (17+) it's easily 3 or even 4 levels.&nbsp; The range changes very rapidly in the double digits.But, again, it's defaulting to a specific baseline of magic in the setting based on level.&nbsp; It's not based on setting.&nbsp; You expect a 17th level paladin to have a holy avenger.&nbsp; You don't expect a 7th level paladin to have one.&nbsp; That has nothing to do with setting.&nbsp; That's the problem whenever this topic comes up.&nbsp; People conflate setting with level.&nbsp; They look at Eberron and say, &quot;Wow, that's a high magic setting.&quot;&nbsp; But, really, it's not.&nbsp; You don't have high powered magic in the setting.&nbsp; Or, if you do, it's very hard to come by.&nbsp; Conversely, they say, &quot;Greyhawk is a low magic setting.&quot;&nbsp; But, again, it's not.&nbsp; High level NPC's are loaded with magic items.&nbsp; PC's at 16th level in Greyhawk have exactly the same numbers and powers of magic items as 16th level PC's in Forgotten Realms.Why?&nbsp; Because the baseline of magic items in D&amp;D isn't tied to setting at all.&nbsp; It's tied to level.&nbsp; That's why it's such a problem to deviate from that baseline in 3e.&nbsp; You screw with the levels system.&nbsp; It has nothing to do at all with the setting.&nbsp; The baseline doesn't care what your setting is.&nbsp; The baseline is there to bring parity between the classes and their expected challenges based on level.Saying that D&amp;D worlds are high or low magic depends entirely at what level your PC's are.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 4003984, member: 22779"] Before I do, let's define a couple of things. High magic, to me, means magic that is easily available and powerful. While Eberron has easily available magic, it's not all that powerful. Essentially, it's higher magic than say, Greyhawk, but, OTOH, Greyhawk has all sorts of extremely powerful magic. Which is a higher magic setting? I'm not sure. 3e in core, defaults to more the Eberron style at low level and the Greyhawk style at high level. By the Wealth by Level guidelines, a 7th level PC has 19k worth of equipment. That's actually not a whole lot. +1 weapon, +1 armor (or equivalent), +2 stat boost item and some odds and sods. The difference between a fully loaded 7th level PC and a 7th level PC with no magic is probably less than the difference between a 7th and 8th level PC. So, 3e at single digit levels defaults to a specific level of magic - widespread, not very powerful magic. Things change around 10th level or so. The difference between a magic carrying PC and a non-magic carrying PC becomes more and more marked. By about 14th level, it's easily one level difference, if not two. At very high levels (17+) it's easily 3 or even 4 levels. The range changes very rapidly in the double digits. But, again, it's defaulting to a specific baseline of magic in the setting based on level. It's not based on setting. You expect a 17th level paladin to have a holy avenger. You don't expect a 7th level paladin to have one. That has nothing to do with setting. That's the problem whenever this topic comes up. People conflate setting with level. They look at Eberron and say, "Wow, that's a high magic setting." But, really, it's not. You don't have high powered magic in the setting. Or, if you do, it's very hard to come by. Conversely, they say, "Greyhawk is a low magic setting." But, again, it's not. High level NPC's are loaded with magic items. PC's at 16th level in Greyhawk have exactly the same numbers and powers of magic items as 16th level PC's in Forgotten Realms. Why? Because the baseline of magic items in D&D isn't tied to setting at all. It's tied to level. That's why it's such a problem to deviate from that baseline in 3e. You screw with the levels system. It has nothing to do at all with the setting. The baseline doesn't care what your setting is. The baseline is there to bring parity between the classes and their expected challenges based on level. Saying that D&D worlds are high or low magic depends entirely at what level your PC's are. [/QUOTE]

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